Is the Bible equal to GOD?

William · Post by **William** » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:53 am

Sometimes in interacting with Christians and observing Christians interacting with each other, I get the impression that what they refer to as 'the word of God' is GOD because it is the only thing on earth that is claimed by them to 'speak for, or on God's behalf' and they use their preferred interpretations of it to argue against other, differing interpretations.

Q: Is it right to treat a man-made object in this manner, or should such be considered - in truth - to be a form of idolatry?

Q: Is the bible used in this manner because people do not know how to commune with GOD any other way?

Q: Is GOD incapable of communion with individuals without the use of mediums, or is it a matter of most humans being incapable of communion with GOD without the use of mediums?

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:25 am

[Replying to post 29 by rikuoamero]

"The naive person believes every word, But the shrewd one ponders each step." Proverbs 14:15

That scripture will help in reading the Bible. Jehovah God is looks for those that have sharp powers of judgment. To know when the His Word is being literal and when it is not. The way the Bible is written is to look to Jehovah in understanding what it says.

I can tell someone that Paul didn't mean that the ink and paper came alive, but what good does that knowledge do them if they doesn't trust the Bible or anyone but themselves.

Reminds me of the flat-earthers. While it's good to question something they will only believe what they can experience themselves. People are always going too far one way or another.

A woman turned into a pillar of salt serves a purpose in punishment and as a warning, what purpose does a walking book have? Do people just not have any powers of reasoning anymore? Are they too self absorbed in their own believes that reasoning is no longer needed?

rikuoamero · Post by **rikuoamero** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:34 am

2timothy316 wrote: [Replying to post 29 by rikuoamero]

"The naive person believes every word, But the shrewd one ponders each step." Proverbs 14:15

That scripture will help in reading the Bible. Jehovah God is looks for those that have sharp powers of judgment. To know when the His Word is being literal and when it is not. The way the Bible is written is to look to Jehovah in understanding what it says.

I can tell someone that Paul didn't mean that the ink and paper came alive, but what good does that knowledge do them if they doesn't trust the Bible or anyone but themselves.

Reminds me of the flat-earthers. While it's good to question something they will only believe what they can experience themselves. People are always going too far one way or another.

A woman turned into a pillar of salt serves a purpose in punishment and as a warning, what purpose does a walking book have? Do people just not have any powers of reasoning anymore? Are they too self absorbed in their own believes that reasoning and evidence are no longer needed?

A hypothetical Bible story where the ink and paper came alive could say (or imply) that the purpose of the now living ink & paper is to show off God's power and might, to show that he can give life even to those things one would ordinarily think would not be alive.
There, now we have a potential purpose for living ink and paper. Now please explain to me why you think the idea is a joke.

William · Post by **William** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:43 am

[Replying to post 30 by 2timothy316]

You should question what does it mean for the Word of God to be alive.

First off one has to discern 'what is the word of GOD?" and in that, one shrewd enough will eventually understand that it is not a book, no matter what organised religion might claim otherwise.
Then one can get about the discovery - along the lines of - "If any book is NOT the word of GOD, then what 'the word of GOD' actually be, if indeed GOD exists and has something to say to the individual?

Such requires relationship. Between the individual and the GOD.
Is that not a central aspect of what Jesus taught?

Because throughout history Jehovah's Word has not only come in the written form. It has been heard, it has come in the form of dreams and visions. Even repeated from a person it can be alive. So, you're thinking in small terms and missing the bigger point I'm trying to make. I don't know if that is because you can't or don't want to.

You are not making any 'big point'. What you are doing is attempting to argue that a book is the word of GOD and that it cannot be a 'living thing' which appears to be an attempt at deflection from the OP topic in an effort, perhaps to say, "the bible cannot be an idol or worshiped as such, BECAUSE it is not a living thing", which of course is just silly.

[Replying to post 31 by 2timothy316]

Jehovah God is looks for those that have sharp powers of judgment. To know when the His Word is being literal and when it is not. The way the Bible is written is to look to Jehovah in understanding what it says.

The point of the OP is in showing that a book is rendered an unnecessary medium between the individual and the GOD. When the book is rendered 'the word of GOD' it replaces the GOD as the focus.

The dilemma is in that the book organizes an image of a GOD in the mind of the one who reads it - believing as they do - that the book represents the GOD and is literally believed to be 'the word of a GOD' and thus the book becomes an idol and is idolized by the believer, through the imagery it creates.

I can tell someone that Paul didn't mean that the ink and paper came alive, but what good does that knowledge do them if they doesn't trust the Bible or anyone but themselves.

What has Paul got to do with this, you didn't say.
Since when are humans supposed to trust a book as 'the word of GOD'? How is a shrewd person supposed to discern if they cannot trust their self?
Your reasoning - if it may be called that - is all over the place.

The bible presents images in the individuals mind and these in turn can and are turned into actual images through the use of ink and paper and these act as strong influences on the minds of the believers in said imagery and take on a life of their own in that regard. All, the product of idolatry. That is how it works.

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:00 pm

[Replying to post 33 by William]

In case you didn't know, in this forum, I don't have to prove the Bible's authenticity as the Word of God. Have a good day!

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:04 pm

rikuoamero wrote:
2timothy316 wrote: [Replying to post 29 by rikuoamero]

"The naive person believes every word, But the shrewd one ponders each step." Proverbs 14:15

That scripture will help in reading the Bible. Jehovah God is looks for those that have sharp powers of judgment. To know when the His Word is being literal and when it is not. The way the Bible is written is to look to Jehovah in understanding what it says.

I can tell someone that Paul didn't mean that the ink and paper came alive, but what good does that knowledge do them if they doesn't trust the Bible or anyone but themselves.

Reminds me of the flat-earthers. While it's good to question something they will only believe what they can experience themselves. People are always going too far one way or another.

A woman turned into a pillar of salt serves a purpose in punishment and as a warning, what purpose does a walking book have? Do people just not have any powers of reasoning anymore? Are they too self absorbed in their own believes that reasoning and evidence are no longer needed?
A hypothetical Bible story where the ink and paper came alive could say (or imply) that the purpose of the now living ink & paper is to show off God's power and might, to show that he can give life even to those things one would ordinarily think would not be alive.
There, now we have a potential purpose for living ink and paper. Now please explain to me why you think the idea is a joke.

The joke is how hard you're trying to explain in why you think that the Bible was being literal. How the 'reasoning' is being created as the discussion moves forward. but being sold off as past reasoning. It's quite comical from my point of view that despite already being told the Bible is not literally alive, you're trying to convince me otherwise, just to argue. It is also comical to see how far a person will go to keep up an absurd point of view, namely the Bible is an idol.

William · Post by **William** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:52 pm

[Replying to post 34 by 2timothy316]

In case you didn't know, in this forum, I don't have to prove the Bible's authenticity as the Word of God.

For a start, the rule is not in place for the purpose of then being able to makes claims that the bible is the word of GOD.

Your argument was tried on by member bluethread in post #8 when he wrote;

Also, this is not the C&A thread, where one can take that position. This is the TD&D thread, where the Scriptures are presumed to be to be valid.

and was immediately shown by me in post #9, to be fallacy, where i wrote;

The Theology, Doctrine, and Dogma forum is for exploring the details of Christianity, and there is nothing to say that such are not to be explored for fault or deception in regard to the bible and its many interpretations/the way in which it is used.

It must be noted bluethread, that I am not making any accusation that the bible is true or false, but rather I am questioning whether it is being used by Christians as an idol - in lieu of a real and personal relationship with an actual GOD.
Indeed, there have been plenty of threads [in the TD&D forum] calling out the idolization of Jesus, and no one has complained that stories in the bible about that are presumed to be valid.

My stance is that wrong interpretation is what has elevated the bible to being the medium between GOD and the individual. Any object used for such, has to be an idol.

So, as handy as you might think this forum is as a safe haven for the purpose avoiding questions regarding the bible, the thread topic and OP are not breaking any rules regarding the use of this particular forum as far as I am concerned, and even if the mods were to decide that it is, this would only go to show in - graphic example -that the book is indeed idolized to the point where it is beyond being allowed to be questioned, which elevates its status, not equal to GOD but over and above GOD.

Clearly the bible itself has no direct reference to IT being 'The Word of GOD', so the claims that it IS 'the word of GOD' can indeed be questioned, even on that point.

William · Post by **William** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:55 pm

[Replying to post 35 by 2timothy316]

It is also comical to see how far a person will go to keep up an absurd point of view, namely the Bible is an idol.

All the facts show well enough that the bible is indeed idolized. To argue for the facts is not to have 'an absurd point of view' but to show that those who believe the bible is 'the word of GOD' are the ones with the absurdity.

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:14 pm

[Replying to post 36 by William]

"Criticism of sources, authorship, or redaction with the intent to discredit the authority of the canon are more appropriate for the Christianity and Apologetics subforum."

Purpose of this forum:
viewtopic.php?t=11496

You said: "First off one has to discern 'what is the word of GOD?"

You are questioning the Bible's authorship and that question is not entertained here. There is no discerning what is the Word of God here, posters here should already have accepted the Bible's authorship.

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:18 pm

William wrote: [Replying to post 35 by 2timothy316]

It is also comical to see how far a person will go to keep up an absurd point of view, namely the Bible is an idol.
All the facts show well enough that the bible is indeed idolized. To argue for the facts is not to have 'an absurd point of view' but to show that those who believe the bible is 'the word of GOD' are the ones with the absurdity.

That is your opinion. The rules of this forum do not recognize your opinions as fact. The Bible on this forum is allowed as fact and the Bible doesn't call itself an idol nor does it say to worship a book as if it were God. Now that is a fact.

The is Bible is more respected than that of your word, but that doesn't mean it's an idol. What the Bible says should be more respected more than that of any man on Earth, that still doesn't make it an idol. The Bible says that God's Word last forever even if the world was no more. (Isaiah 40:8)

William · Post by **William** » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:03 pm

[Replying to post 39 by 2timothy316]

All the facts show well enough that the bible is indeed idolized. To argue for the facts is not to have 'an absurd point of view' but to show that those who believe the bible is 'the word of GOD' are the ones with the absurdity.

That is your opinion.

If it is my opinion, the actual evidence has shaped the opinion.

The rules of this forum do not recognize your opinions as fact.

They do not recognize belief as fact either. Belief is simply a form of opinion which is oft erroneously accepted as fact, as the OP blurb points out.

The belief that the bible is the word of GOD is a great example of this. I have presented argument which has been ignored/skirted around or as a last ditch effort, claimed to be against the rules of the forum. The evidence is clear enough that the bible is indeed treated in the same manner as any other idol by those who believe it is literally 'the word of GOD'.

If you are unable to properly address that, fair enough. Claiming it contradicts the rules of this forum is for the mods to deal with, and as I said;

...even if the mods were to decide that it is, [a breach of forum rules] this would only go to show in - graphic example -that the book is indeed idolized to the point where it is beyond being allowed to be questioned, which elevates its status, not equal to GOD but over and above GOD.

[Replying to post 38 by 2timothy316]

"Criticism of sources, authorship, or redaction with the intent to discredit the authority of the canon are more appropriate for the Christianity and Apologetics subforum."

As I said;

Clearly the bible itself has no direct reference to IT being 'The Word of GOD', so the claims that it IS 'the word of GOD' can indeed be questioned, even on that point.

What the bible does contain are references to 'the word of GOD' which do not in any way speak to the actual book as being 'the word of GOD' - which is entirely the point of the thread topic.
The claims of Christians who say that the bible IS 'the word of GOD' are able to be challenged in this forum because the sources, authorship, or redaction of what those Christians claim, are what are under question, and in relation to the thread topic, the Christians who do NOT make such a claim are also not making an idol out of the bible.

So no, I am certainly NOT questioning the bible's authorship, I am simply questioning the claims that Christians make about the author being GOD, and the bible backs me on that.

There is no discerning what is the Word of God here, posters here should already have accepted the Bible's authorship.

When the claim is made that the bible is 'the word of GOD' the claim is being questioned. The bible makes no such claim. Christians who believe the bible is 'the word of GOD' are the ones making the claim and the ones being questioned on that point.