A Robot Alligator and God.

[Divine Insight]

Let's say that I build a robot alligator. I design it to look and act just like a real alligator. I program it to attack and devour anything that moves. Then I set it loose into the world.

The robot alligator eventually encounters a human child playing by the edge of the water. The child is moving so the alligator attacks the child and devours the child. Authorities just happen to see the whole event and capture the robot alligator. They quickly discover that it is indeed a robot and not a real alligator. They also discover that I am the one who designed it, built it, programmed it, and set it loose where it could potentially harm humans.

What do you think would happen to me? I would instantly be arrested of course, and viewed as a heinous criminal who had done a very bad thing indeed. I would most likely get life imprisonment or worse.

But just look around at the real world and the real alligators. If the world was created by a God then God has done precisely what I described above. God designed and created alligators that are programmed to attack and eat anything that moves, including humans.

So why is it that, as a human, if I create an alligator and set it loose in the world I am considered to be a heinous criminal, but it's perfectly fine for a God to do precisely the same thing?

Question for Debate: Why the double standard?

[Tcg]

...
But just look around at the real world and the real alligators. If the world was created by a God then God has done precisely what I described above. God designed and created alligators that are programmed to attack and eat anything that moves, including humans....

Maybe it would be problem, if we would not know to be careful, or we would not be able to be careful. I think we are not helpless idiots, that is why I don’t see alligators as a problem.

Are there many alligators in Finland?

The answer to this question may give us a hint as to why you don't understand the very real danger alligators pose.

Given that I live in Ohio, I'm not terribly afraid of Polar Bears.

All of this is simply a diversion to distract from the very real issues the OP presents. Perhaps at some point you'll attempt to address them.

[Divine Insight]

...
But just look around at the real world and the real alligators. If the world was created by a God then God has done precisely what I described above. God designed and created alligators that are programmed to attack and eat anything that moves, including humans....

Maybe it would be problem, if we would not know to be careful, or we would not be able to be careful. I think we are not helpless idiots, that is why I don’t see alligators as a problem.

So then if I build robot alligators and set them loose I shouldn't be held responsible if they eat someone's kid right? That kid should have known to be careful.

That's your argument?

If I ever decide to build robot alligators I hope you're on the jury when I go to trial.

[Divine Insight]

...
But just look around at the real world and the real alligators. If the world was created by a God then God has done precisely what I described above. God designed and created alligators that are programmed to attack and eat anything that moves, including humans....

Maybe it would be problem, if we would not know to be careful, or we would not be able to be careful. I think we are not helpless idiots, that is why I don’t see alligators as a problem.

By the way, does your same argument apply to Ebola?

What if instead of building robot alligators I go into a lab and grow some Ebola and then set it loose in the environment where humans might be attacked by it and become deathly sick and die?

Does your same argument hold? It's the people's fault for not being careful not to contract Ebola?

I'm pretty sure the authorities would be quick to arrest me and charge me with a horrific crime.

They aren't about to just say, "Hey DI, great work in creating Ebola! Too bad those idiots contracted it. They should have known better, just ask 1213."

[JoeyKnothead]

God brought man into this world. God. Not man.

Right, and man disobeyed God. Man. Disobeyed. God. Gee, I hope I wasn't unclear...

I challenge you to show you speak truth in this regard, and have conveniently set up an OP just so's ya can.

[ttruscott]

God designed and created alligators that are programmed to attack and eat anything that moves, including humans.

So why is it that, as a human, if I create an alligator and set it loose in the world I am considered to be a heinous criminal, but it's perfectly fine for a God to do precisely the same thing?

Question for Debate: Why the double standard?

First, GOD didn't create evil and suffering. Some created people did against HIS desires. YES, HE allowed them to choose by their free will and they chose to ignore HIS warnings of the natural consequences of becoming evil and rebelled against HIM.

When GOD designed the earth as a prison for evil spirits to sequester them from the polite society of heaven and to limit their predations to other sinners, HE did not design this world to be a paradise but to reflect the natural consequences of choosing evil, ie full of death and suffering.

The reason HE made this world in this way was not to cause random suffering but to show HIS sinful elect what the effects of their sin has upon their society. This has the effect of moving the sinful elect to repent and to seek a saviour to free them from sin so they are able to chose to become holy.

Once the last of those who can repent and become holy are sanctified, then the remaining folk who will not repent and become holy will be banished to the outer darkness, cleansing this reality from all evil, partly by repentance, partly by judgment.

The reason this process has taken so long is due to both the fragility and the stubbornness of the sinful elect against accepting the lessons of life, repentance and judgement.

Also GOD's alligators do their eating within a system which is perfectly managed by GOD so
- no innocent person ever suffers, ie, only those guilty of evil suffer
- no person suffers more than justice demands for their sins.
- Suffering is for two purposes: 1. as a punishment for some sinners to try to elicit a change of behaviour ie it is rehabilitative and 2. and for others, as a judgement upon their evil, a small sentencing of suffering without any rehabilitative intent, but short of damnation.

So, contrary to the suggestion that GOD is randomly causing pain and suffering with erratic alligators for no reason, Christian doctrine teachings are quite different and this strawman argument misses the mark of addressing Christianity in the least.

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 15 by ttruscott]

When GOD designed the earth as a prison for evil spirits to sequester them from the polite society of heaven and to limit their predations to other sinners, HE did not design this world to be a paradise but to reflect the natural consequences of choosing evil, ie full of death and suffering.

That sounds like something written for the Theatre of the Absurd in the 1950s. Where did the evil spirits in heaven come from? What sort of predation did they engage in? Do spirit beings exist independently of material beings? Why make Earth an environment for material human beings and other organisms when you are going to use it as a dumping ground for evil spirits? What is the purpose of the rest of the incredibly vast universe? Etc. Christianity is ridiculous enough as it is without being embellished with all this added nonsense.

[Divine Insight]

When GOD designed the earth as a prison for evil spirits to sequester them from the polite society of heaven and to limit their predations to other sinners, HE did not design this world to be a paradise but to reflect the natural consequences of choosing evil, ie full of death and suffering.

Sorry Ted, but that's not the Biblical story. The Bible doesn't have God creating the Earth as a prison for evil spirits. To the contrary in Genesis chapter 1 the Bible has God creating the earth and seeing that it was good.

So you aren't even talking about the Biblical theology. Whatever it is that you are talking about is non-Biblical.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 15 by ttruscott]

When GOD designed the earth as a prison for evil spirits to sequester them from the polite society of heaven and to limit their predations to other sinners, HE did not design this world to be a paradise but to reflect the natural consequences of choosing evil, ie full of death and suffering.

That sounds like something written for the Theatre of the Absurd in the 1950s.

Thanks for sharing...

Where did the evil spirits in heaven come from?

They self created themselves as evil 1. The Satanic rebellion which put their faith in YHWH being an evil false God and 2. some of the elect rebelling against the judgement day, idolizing their sinful friends over their GOD.

What sort of predation did they engage in?

While in heaven while others were trying to make up their minds about all this they tried to induce the elect into sinning knowing it would postpone the judgment if there was one, and in leading those who were uncommitted to commit to hating YHWH for being the first sinner and therefore most evil person in creation. But since the word predation was used in reference to the earthly society of sinners, the predations of the evil ones are the ordinary evils people bedevil each other with.

Do spirit beings exist independently of material beings?

Sure.

Why make Earth an environment for material human beings and other organisms when you are going to use it as a dumping ground for evil spirits?

I have yet to find out what the advantages of a physical life are... sorry.

What is the purpose of the rest of the incredibly vast universe?

Once this reality is cleansed from all evil and we all share the telepathic link of loving emotion and full communication that makes our relationship with HIM and the rest of His bride, then we can explore the great incredible playground of a universe he made just for us.

Christianity is ridiculous enough as it is without being embellished with all this added nonsense.

I believe that casting such bald faced and defamatory remarks about someone's religion is frowned upon here - shall we check?

[brunumb]

[Replying to post 18 by ttruscott]

While in heaven while others were trying to make up their minds about all this they tried to induce the elect into sinning..........

What sins can be committed in heaven?

sp.

[Tcg]

- no innocent person ever suffers, ie, only those guilty of evil suffer

So, are you claiming that Jesus never suffered or that he was guilty of evil?

Additionally, Jesus disagrees with this. He admits that this blind man's suffering was not the result of sin:

John 9:1 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?�

3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,� said Jesus, “but this happened so that the works of God might be displayed in him.

You have obviously created a rather complex theology, but it is just as obvious that it is not founded on a Biblical based Christianity. The Bible teaches that God causes suffering amongst the sin free.