So I knew there were other gods listed in the Torah/OT, but I didn't realize there were over sixty!
Sixty deities spoken about as if they were, to spout the phrase, "living gods."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category: ... brew_Bible
How can the OT claim to be monotheistic, when Asherah (Ha-Sarah), is Yahweh's wife, and so many other deities are part of the narrative?
We all thought Judaism was monotheistic, but it has as many gods as any other religion.
Can anyone explain this?
If you are Judaic, is it OK to worship one of the less bloodthirsty ones? Dagon, god of grain and the oceans, seems nice.
Over sixty valid deities in the OT
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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT
Post #41Willum wrote: The Bible teaches that all these other gods ....were married to Yahweh.
Do you have a verse to support this claim?
JW
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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT
Post #42[Replying to post 41 by JehovahsWitness]
https://www.seeker.com/gods-wife-edited ... 83399.html
This is a good one also:
https://drum.lib.umd.edu/bitstream/hand ... sAllowed=y
Yes, she was edited out of your book of purest truth by men. I suppose you will discount it because it is from a Bible written in clay tablets 2300 years before your paper version?
And I suppose you will try to discount the entire OP because your current book has been corrupted and you wish to believe it - despite the other references to the other gods, including Ashereh?
I'll be waiting.
https://www.seeker.com/gods-wife-edited ... 83399.html
This is a good one also:
https://drum.lib.umd.edu/bitstream/hand ... sAllowed=y
Yes, she was edited out of your book of purest truth by men. I suppose you will discount it because it is from a Bible written in clay tablets 2300 years before your paper version?
And I suppose you will try to discount the entire OP because your current book has been corrupted and you wish to believe it - despite the other references to the other gods, including Ashereh?
I'll be waiting.
Last edited by Willum on Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT
Post #43[Replying to post 42 by Willum]
I scanned the page you linked to and couldn't see a single scripture on it. My question was...
Thanks,
JW
I scanned the page you linked to and couldn't see a single scripture on it. My question was...
(There are some scriptures in the second pdf file you linked me to but none of them speak about YHWH marrying a pagan godess). So do you have a single scripture to support what you have said above?JehovahsWitness wrote:Willum wrote: The Bible teaches that all these other gods ....were married to Yahweh.
Do you have a verse [in the BIBLE] to support this claim?
JW
Thanks,
JW
Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:27 pm, edited 4 times in total.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT
Post #44[Replying to post 43 by JehovahsWitness]
And my response is, not in the corrupted version of the Bible you currently read. It is in Ugarit versions.
And my response is, not in the corrupted version of the Bible you currently read. It is in Ugarit versions.
Last edited by Willum on Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT
Post #45JehovahsWitness wrote:Willum wrote: The Bible teaches that all these other gods ....were married to Yahweh.
Do you have a verse [in the BIBLE] to support this claim?
I take that as a "no".Willum wrote:
...not in the corrupted version of the Bible you currently read.
Have a good day.
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Willum
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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT
Post #46[Replying to post 45 by JehovahsWitness]
You dare not take that as a "no," there are so many versions of your corrupted text that should I invoke a recently discovered one, you must give it pause.
Since you will never agree on anything but those corrupted versions of the Bible, we can continue to speak about those versions.
Let us focus on Yahweh and other deities in your version:
Jeremiah 46:25 for example. Surely that is neutral territory?
You dare not take that as a "no," there are so many versions of your corrupted text that should I invoke a recently discovered one, you must give it pause.
Since you will never agree on anything but those corrupted versions of the Bible, we can continue to speak about those versions.
Let us focus on Yahweh and other deities in your version:
Jeremiah 46:25 for example. Surely that is neutral territory?
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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT
Post #47[Replying to post 46 by Willum]
Are suggesting this scripture supports your claim? If so, how?
JW
Emphasis MINEWillum wrote: The Bible teaches that all these other gods ....were married to Yahweh.
JEREMIAH 46:24-26
The daughter of Egypt will be put to shame. She will be handed over to the people of the north.’ [25] “Jehovah of armies, the God of Israel, says: ‘Now I am turning my attention to Aʹmon from No, to Pharaoh, to Egypt, to her gods, and to her kings—yes, to Pharʹaoh and all those trusting in him.’ “‘And I will hand them over to those seeking to take their life, to King Neb·chadnezʹzar of Babylon and his servants." - NWT
Are suggesting this scripture supports your claim? If so, how?
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Willum
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Re: Over sixty valid deities in the OT
Post #48[Replying to post 47 by JehovahsWitness]
I don't know what "Emphasis MINE," means, if it means "emphasis your opinion," why bring it up?
But no, I am referring to: Jeremiah 46:25
I don't know what "Emphasis MINE," means, if it means "emphasis your opinion," why bring it up?
But no, I am referring to: Jeremiah 46:25
As you have read in this OP.The LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: "I am about to bring punishment on Amon god of Thebes, on Pharaoh, on Egypt and her gods and her kings, and on those who rely on Pharaoh.
Post #49
ok, so we have concluded the Bible doesnt teach that God was married to Asherah...
If we do a Bible word lookup, Asherah is mentioned 40 times. The majority of the references are commands to destroy these idols. For example, this is the very FIRST reference to Asherah:
10 Then the Lord said: “I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the Lord, will do for you. 11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles. 14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.(Exodus 34)
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearc ... ersion=NIV
The majority of the references are of God commanding to not worship, and to destroy all these images of other gods, which include Asherah...
It is clear that the Bible teaches Asherah isnt a living god, but a false idol that is not to be worshiped by the tribes around Israel. There is absolutely nothing telling us she was married to Yahweh.
However, there may be a little bit of validity to suggest that Asherah was worshiped along side Yahweh. Although the Bible clearly teaches Asherah isnt a living god, and that the God of the Israelite's were commanded by God to not worship this false idol, some Israelite indeed did worship Asherah...
For example:
7 The Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord; they forgot the Lord their God and served the Baals and the Asherahs. 8 The anger of the Lord burned against Israel so that he sold them into the hands of Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram Naharaim, to whom the Israelites were subject for eight years.
(Judges 3)
Another example:
15 And the Lord will strike Israel, so that it will be like a reed swaying in the water. He will uproot Israel from this good land that he gave to their ancestors and scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, because they aroused the Lord’s anger by making Asherah poles.
(1 Kings 14:15)
So i can see how some people would believe the Israelite's worshiped Asherah, because they did. The Bible even states this is so. (Which by the way, you claim the Bible isnt accurate, and is falsely manipulated, which id like to see evidence of)... The Bible even agrees with you that Israel worship Asherah, however, it doesnt agree that Asherah is a "living god", and certainly not married to Yahweh.. There isnt a single verse that says Asherah is alive, or married to anyone...
Furthermore, every verse in the Bible, is in line with Yahweh condemning the worship of Asherah. Yes, some Israelite's deviated from that command and worshiped Asherah, but that was condemned by God, and in nearly all cases they were punished for doing so (if not 100% of the cases).
Also, I see no evidence of the Bible teaching that there is any other living gods, other then that of the Israelite's...
This original topic, from the original post, is asking how we would explain this topic... And it is explained. The Bible doesnt teach of any other living God (i have referenced scripture supporting that), and it doesn't teach Asherah was Yahweh's wife, or even approved to be worshiped by Yahweh (i have referenced verses)...
Now if you disagree with that, by saying for example, that the Bible we have today is wrong (for whatever reason), that is a different topic. That would be a topic about if the Bible is valid, which i would be happy to discuss with you about. This topic however is closed with the fact that the Bible doesnt teach the things the original post says, that there are other "living gods"...
If we do a Bible word lookup, Asherah is mentioned 40 times. The majority of the references are commands to destroy these idols. For example, this is the very FIRST reference to Asherah:
10 Then the Lord said: “I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the Lord, will do for you. 11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles. 14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.(Exodus 34)
https://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearc ... ersion=NIV
The majority of the references are of God commanding to not worship, and to destroy all these images of other gods, which include Asherah...
It is clear that the Bible teaches Asherah isnt a living god, but a false idol that is not to be worshiped by the tribes around Israel. There is absolutely nothing telling us she was married to Yahweh.
However, there may be a little bit of validity to suggest that Asherah was worshiped along side Yahweh. Although the Bible clearly teaches Asherah isnt a living god, and that the God of the Israelite's were commanded by God to not worship this false idol, some Israelite indeed did worship Asherah...
For example:
7 The Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord; they forgot the Lord their God and served the Baals and the Asherahs. 8 The anger of the Lord burned against Israel so that he sold them into the hands of Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram Naharaim, to whom the Israelites were subject for eight years.
(Judges 3)
Another example:
15 And the Lord will strike Israel, so that it will be like a reed swaying in the water. He will uproot Israel from this good land that he gave to their ancestors and scatter them beyond the Euphrates River, because they aroused the Lord’s anger by making Asherah poles.
(1 Kings 14:15)
So i can see how some people would believe the Israelite's worshiped Asherah, because they did. The Bible even states this is so. (Which by the way, you claim the Bible isnt accurate, and is falsely manipulated, which id like to see evidence of)... The Bible even agrees with you that Israel worship Asherah, however, it doesnt agree that Asherah is a "living god", and certainly not married to Yahweh.. There isnt a single verse that says Asherah is alive, or married to anyone...
Furthermore, every verse in the Bible, is in line with Yahweh condemning the worship of Asherah. Yes, some Israelite's deviated from that command and worshiped Asherah, but that was condemned by God, and in nearly all cases they were punished for doing so (if not 100% of the cases).
Also, I see no evidence of the Bible teaching that there is any other living gods, other then that of the Israelite's...
This original topic, from the original post, is asking how we would explain this topic... And it is explained. The Bible doesnt teach of any other living God (i have referenced scripture supporting that), and it doesn't teach Asherah was Yahweh's wife, or even approved to be worshiped by Yahweh (i have referenced verses)...
Now if you disagree with that, by saying for example, that the Bible we have today is wrong (for whatever reason), that is a different topic. That would be a topic about if the Bible is valid, which i would be happy to discuss with you about. This topic however is closed with the fact that the Bible doesnt teach the things the original post says, that there are other "living gods"...
Last edited by Tart on Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Willum
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Post #50
[Replying to post 49 by Tart]
Please pay attention to the topic.
So, your argument was completely self-defeating.
Absolutely we have established that paper versions of the Bible do not, but clay versions do.ok, so we have concluded the Bible doesnt teach that God was married to Asherah..
Please pay attention to the topic.
Over hundreds of years and the minority of these references praise her worship.The majority of the references are of God commanding to not worship, and to destroy all these images of other gods, which include Asherah...
And that is all you need. Period. Yahweh now has as much proof as her and the other gods, after all we must not focus on one...However, there may be a little bit of validity to suggest that Asherah was worshiped along side Yahweh.
So, your argument was completely self-defeating.
