Omniscient Gospel Authors?

[RedEye]

There are numerous passages in the gospels where the author displays knowledge of things which they couldn't possibly know. One example:

• Matthew 17
  1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
  4 Peter said to Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters"one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.

How could the author know that who the three disciples saw was Moses and Elijah? There were no photos of them to compare with. There were no police artist sketches. It could have been any random two people. Yet the author somehow knows that it was Moses and Elijah. How? And why would spirits need shelters? That makes absolutely no sense.

Remember also that Moses and Elijah could not have been in heaven:

• John 3
  13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven"the Son of Man.

So where did "Moses" and "Elijah" come from? Were they temporarily raised from their long-forgotten graves by Jesus for a bit of show and tell? (Yes, I know that Elijah was supposedly taken up by a whirlwind into heaven but that is in direct contradiction to John 3. It was probably just a tragic death in a storm).

Another example:

• Matthew 27
  19 Just then, as Pilate was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent him this message: Leave that innocent man alone. I suffered through a terrible nightmare about him last night.

How could the author of Matthew possibly know what was in a private communication between Pilate and his wife and what she dreamed the night before? The author must have been omniscient!

Isn't this all more confirmation that the gospels are just made-up stories? It's not history. It's pure fiction masquerading as a biography.

[JehovahsWitness]

How could the author know that who the three disciples saw was Moses and Elijah? There were no photos of them to compare with

Emphasis mine


The account doesnt use the work "know" at all, much less present any claim to be in a position to prove what they asset. It seems reasonable to view the writers account as a testimony of belief, ie that is what they believed the disciples saw.



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

Remember also that Moses and Elijah could not have been in heaven:

• John 3
  13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven"the Son of Man.

So where did "Moses" and "Elijah" come from?

It is clearly stated in the account that what the disciples saw was a vision. In other words the two individuals (Moses and Elijah) in question were not actually, literally there but they (the disciples) saw some kind of optical projection that made it seem as if Moses and Elijah were in front of them with Jesus.




JW



FURTHER READING How are we to understand John 3:13?
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2006447


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[JehovahsWitness]

How could the author of Matthew possibly know what was in a private communication between Pilate and his wife and what she dreamed the night before? The author must have been omniscient!

The possible sources could be :

• - a member of Pilates entourage (the account says she communicated the information through a messager, possibly by word of mouth or in an unsealed note)
  
  - The resurrected Jesus (who, according to the narrative, met with all his disciples, one of whom was Matthew, who it is believed to be the writer of the book that bears his name)
  
  - Almighty God (if there is a God and the bible writer was indeed inspired by that One, then He (God) would logically be in a a position to know who said what to whom).

JW



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[ElCodeMonkey]

[Replying to post 1 by RedEye]

Moses and Elijah are held in "Abraham's Bosom" until the resurrection of the dead. Just because the account doesn't specifically say it doesn't mean that they didn't ask Jesus who they were. If I had an account where two people showed up and I was informed who they were after asking, I'd probably just recount the story using their names rather than including the useless details that I asked.

[RedEye]

How could the author know that who the three disciples saw was Moses and Elijah? There were no photos of them to compare with

Emphasis mine

The account doesnt use the work "know" at all, much less present any claim to be in a position to prove what they asset.

Of course it's a claim. Why else would these figures be given such specific names? Why couldn't they have been Adam and Noah?

It seems reasonable to view the writers account as a testimony of belief, ie that is what they believed the disciples saw.

What reason would they have for such belief though? No-one goes around assigning names to people if they have no idea who they are. When you see two random people standing next to the president do you immediately reel off their names? It's absurd.

[JehovahsWitness]

Of course it's a claim.

If it's a claim it's a faith based one.

What reason would they have for such belief though?

My guess would be that the disciples eventually shared their experience on the mountain and the writers had confidence in the integrity of their source, so they included the account in their narrative.

[RedEye]

How could the author of Matthew possibly know what was in a private communication between Pilate and his wife and what she dreamed the night before? The author must have been omniscient!

The possible sources could be :

• - a member of Pilates entourage (the account says she communicated the information through a messager, possibly by word of mouth or in an unsealed note)

No it doesn't. It just says that Pilate's wife sent him a message. She could have done that herself for all we know. We're talking about what is plausible not what is improbable to the point of impossibility. Here is the author of Matthew writing a gospel at least four or five decades later (at a minimum) and he miraculously locates a member of Pilate's staff to find out what actually transpired. (This is after Pilate had been recalled back to Rome in disgrace after only a few years and then later Jerusalem had been totally destroyed with all Jews permanently banned from the area). Come on, pull the other leg!

Just prior to the verse I quoted, the author of Matthew writes this:

• Matthew 27
  18 (He knew very well that the religious leaders had arrested Jesus out of envy.)

Yep, the author knew what Pilate was thinking too! Unbelievable.

• - The resurrected Jesus (who, according to the narrative, met with all his disciples, one of whom was Matthew, who it is believed to be the writer of the book that bears his name)

Firstly, the author of Matthew was not a disciple. Illiterate tax collectors do not write sophisticated Greek works. That is baloney. Secondly, whilst Jesus was indeed at the trial he could have no knowledge of a private communication between Pilate and his wife.

• - Almighty God (if there is a God and the bible writer was indeed inspired by that One, then He (God) would logically be in a a position to know who said what to whom).

Sure. Magic.

[RedEye]

[Replying to post 1 by RedEye]
Moses and Elijah are held in "Abraham's Bosom" until the resurrection of the dead. Just because the account doesn't specifically say it doesn't mean that they didn't ask Jesus who they were. If I had an account where two people showed up and I was informed who they were after asking, I'd probably just recount the story using their names rather than including the useless details that I asked.

As useless a detail as Peter offering to build shelters for ghosts?

[JehovahsWitness]

The possible sources could be :

• - a member of Pilates entourage (the account says she communicated the information through a messager, possibly by word of mouth or in an unsealed note)

No it doesn't. It just says that Pilate's wife sent him a message.

And a person that conveys a message would be called a ....what?

She could have done that herself for all we know.

Don't be ridiculous!

Matthew's account says Pilates "wife had sent a message" if she took the message herself the account would logically said she gave him a message (or simply she told him). Since the word sent is in the narrative the verb logically doesn't apply to herself.