What Would a Good Jewish Girl Do?

[RedEye]

I want to pose a hypothetical scenario. Imagine a young Jewish girl a couple of thousand years ago. She is pledged to be married but the marriage has not been consummated yet. This girl is a devout follower of Judaism like her parents and husband-to-be. She attends her local Synagogue with them and listens earnestly to the Rabbi reciting Jewish scripture and teachings. Judaism teaches that there is only one true God (Yahweh). There are no other gods or demi-gods.

The region in which she lives is occupied by the Romans and she is aware that they worship a pantheon of gods and demi-gods. (Demi-gods are produced by a male god mating with a human female or a human male mating with a female god). They even worship their emperor in Rome like a god. She has no doubt had some contact with Greeks (gentiles) in her town too and come to know that they also have a pantheon of their own gods and demi-gods. Her Rabbi warns her against such pagan beliefs and constantly stresses that all these other gods are false. There is one and only one true God and his name is Yahweh.

Then one day an apparition appears to our Jewish girl. It tells her that God wants to inseminate her so that she can give him a son. Now, what would a good Jewish girl do in these circumstances?

A. Run immediately to her parents and tell them that a pagan god wants to inseminate her before she is married. (It has to be a pagan god because Yahweh would never ask for such a thing).
B. Run to her future husband and ask for help so that she does not end up committing adultery against her will.
C. Run to her Rabbi, tell him of this blasphemous request and get advice on how to deal with this demon that approached her.
D. Acquiesce meekly despite it going against everything she has ever been taught as a devout Jew.

Which course of action makes the least sense given the cultural context?

[JehovahsWitness]

Easy. She conceives the normal way with Joseph, some time in the future.

Yet somehow such a thought never even occurred to her. Hmm.

What proof do you have that this never occurred to her? Unless you have mind reading capacities I cannot think how you can know this, or are you just expressing your personal belief?



JW

[FarWanderer]

[Replying to post 31 by JehovahsWitness]

Its a revelation from the God of Common Sense. Sadly, some are deaf to his Truth.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 31 by JehovahsWitness]

Its a revelation from the God of Common Sense.

Common sense doesn't allow you to read somebody's mind. And if we are using common sense why would you conclude she didn't think of what would be the normal way of conceiving a child. I fear your God has let you down some.

In any case, I notice you have avoided actually answering my questions (I have reproduced them below in case you have forgotten what they are).

What proof do you have that this never occurred to her? Unless you have mind reading capacities I cannot think how you can know this, or are you just expressing your personal belief?

[FarWanderer]

[Replying to post 31 by JehovahsWitness]

Its a revelation from the God of Common Sense.

Don't be ridiculous, common sense doesn't allow you to read somebody's mind.

What proof do you have of that? (see this silly game you have started?)

Seriously, you're the one being ridiculous here. It's an inference. We make inferences about peoples thoughts all the time. JW, you wouldn't barge into criminal court rooms and lecture the judge and jury about how they can't read minds and therefore have no authority in passing sentence, would you? I sure hope not.

If you have a problem with my inference, fine. Point it why you think it's a weak or poor inference.

[RedEye]

Easy. She conceives the normal way with Joseph, some time in the future.
Yet somehow such a thought never even occurred to her. Hmm.

What proof do you have that this never occurred to her?

It couldn't have occurred to her because she questioned how she could conceive as a virgin and she was explicitly told that God himself would come down and inseminate her. See my post #22. Joseph was not involved (which is why he had it in mind to divorce her quietly before being persuaded out of it).

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you both!

Also, were there no gentile women around for Mary to have social contact with?

No. Gentles and Jews did not mix, period.

Don't be ridiculous. Jesus was a Jew and he mixed repeatedly with gentiles. Read your Bible.

My Lord mixed with Samaritans. Jews may have considered Samaritans to be Gentiles (they considered anyone except Jews to be Gentiles). But the Samaritans were actually Israel, and Christ came for the lost sheep of Israel.

You both don't know your own Bible:

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Gentiles,-In-Nt

• Mark 7:24-30
  Jesus got up and went away from there to the region of Tyre. And when He had entered a house, He wanted no one to know of it; yet He could not escape notice. But after hearing of Him, a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately came and fell at His feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of the Syrophoenician race. And she kept asking Him to cast the demon out of her daughter.

• Matthew 8:5-13
  And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, imploring Him, and saying, "Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, fearfully tormented." Jesus said to him, "I will come and heal him."

Not only did Jesus help a Roman centurion but this chap was also probably gay as well. A gay Gentile and Jesus had no problem!

A - You did not finish quoting from Mark (and we will find a similar passage in Matthew) about the gentile woman, whom Christ at first did not answer, then answered to say that He came only for the lost sheep of Israel, then - after she showed great faith - He granted her request. But He did not grant her request at first, because she was not Israel (Jew or Samaritan).


B - It could be that the Centurion was a gentile with great faith (like the woman above), but that would still be an exception and not the norm. However, Capernaum had a Jewish and Samaritan presence, so the man might have been Israel as well.


If an actual Gentile, then his request being granted was an exception due to great faith, and not the norm, same as the gentile woman, whom Christ did not respond to at first.



You also have no evidence that the centurion was gay, so I am not sure why you throw that in there. I could not care less if he was gay or straight, but you have no evidence for this.


(That wall between Jew and Gentile was "torn down" after Christ's death and resurrection, but before then Gentiles were not invited in, unless they converted of course.)



Peace again to you!

[RedEye]

A - You did not finish quoting from Mark (and we will find a similar passage in Matthew) about the gentile woman, whom Christ at first did not answer, then answered to say that He came only for the lost sheep of Israel, then - after she showed great faith - He granted her request. But He did not grant her request at first, because she was not Israel (Jew or Samaritan).

The issue is not granting her request or not. The issue is whether Jesus had no interaction with Gentiles as you claimed. Do you now retract that assertion?

B - It could be that the Centurion was a gentile with great faith (like the woman above), but that would still be an exception and not the norm. However, Capernaum had a Jewish and Samaritan presence, so the man might have been Israel as well.

What? Do you know what a centurion was? He was a commander responsible for 100 soldiers in the Roman army. And you are seriously claiming that he might have been a Jew?

If an actual Gentile, then his request being granted was an exception due to great faith, and not the norm, same as the gentile woman, whom Christ did not respond to at first.

You are still missing the point. Your claim was that Jews did not interact with Gentiles. Your own holy book refutes you.

You also have no evidence that the centurion was gay, so I am not sure why you throw that in there. I could not care less if he was gay or straight, but you have no evidence for this.

Think about it. Here was a Roman centurion willing to humble himself by asking a Jew for help with a sick servant boy. You would need to be fairly desperate to do that. A replacement servant would not be hard to come by for a senior Roman official. Therefore he must have had a "special relationship" with the boy. This was not uncommon at the time. What is even more interesting is that it hints at jealousy on the part of the centurion. Jesus himself might have had a certain reputation in that area. He surrounded himself with young men after all. The centurion was very reluctant for Jesus to cure the boy in person. He wanted Jesus to do it from a distance. What other reason could he possibly have for not wanting Jesus to meet the servant boy face to face, lay hands on him and heal him? It sounds like jealousy to me.

(That wall between Jew and Gentile was "torn down" after Christ's death and resurrection, but before then Gentiles were not invited in, unless they converted of course.)

You will need to cite a source for that. Clearly Jesus was a Jew and he interacted with Gentiles quite easily. I think you might be making this up. There is no doubt that many Jews had strict rules about diet and unclean things, but total social disconnect? No, that seems to be fiction.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 37 by RedEye]

I'd still like to know, in what religious way Jesus could be considered a Jew.
The claim is out there. But according to either Deuteronomy or divine parentage, he is in no way Jewish.

That is just an intuitive claim, that is, after all, false.

[RedEye]

[Replying to post 37 by RedEye]
I'd still like to know, in what religious way Jesus could be considered a Jew.
The claim is out there. But according to either Deuteronomy or divine parentage, he is in no way Jewish.

That is just an intuitive claim, that is, after all, false.

It's not about race (ie. DNA) or parentage. Anyone can become a Jew as long as you fully accept Jewish law and customs. There were Jewish proselytes at that time (although it wasn't easy). Jesus (if he existed) was a Jew simply by virtue of being raised in a Jewish family.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 39 by RedEye]

And he rejected them, and even embraced blasphemy, in the name of foreign gods.
Among other things.

You aren't Jewish because you say so.
If you eat pork, promote foreign gods (Caesars) and so on, that make you non-Jewish.