Sired by Yahweh on a Human Virgin

[StuartJ]

Can Christians demonstrate - other than quoting the propaganda or repeating their beliefs - that their Leader was indeed sired by Yahweh or the Holy Ghost on a human virgin?

It's a simple, straightforward question aimed at the very foundation of Christianity.

Please pay us the courtesy of answering directly this time.

[Realworldjack]

Can Christians demonstrate - other than quoting the propaganda or repeating their beliefs - that their Leader was indeed sired by Yahweh or the Holy Ghost on a human virgin?

It's a simple, straightforward question aimed at the very foundation of Christianity.

Please pay us the courtesy of answering directly this time.

Can Christians demonstrate - other than quoting the propaganda or repeating their beliefs - that their Leader was indeed sired by Yahweh or the Holy Ghost on a human virgin?

As a Christian, (and I cannot speak for all Christians) I cannot demonstrate what you ask in the least. This is answering a straightforward question, with a straightforward answer.

What I can demonstrate is, this was reported to have occured.

Now the question to you would be, can you demonstrate that this report would be false, without "quoting propaganda or repeating your beliefs" along with not telling us what would be scientifically impossible, since we all know it would be scientifically impossible?

If you insist on sharing with us what would be scientifically impossible, can you demonstrate that science can, and does have all the answers, and that if science tells us that it is scientifically impossible, that this would be the same as being impossible?

[Tcg]

Why ask it?

Because it gives one the opportunity to answer "yes" or "no".

If one answers "yes", it also gives them the opportunity to support that answer.

Given that no one has yet stepped up and answered, "yes", there is no reason to conclude that "no" is the wrong answer.

Those who aren't willing to answer "yes" simply complain about the question. It makes one suspect that they refuse to step up with this three letter answer because they know no matter how many letters they use to support their answer, it will be a total failure.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 8 by StuartJ]

But that's exactly why I followed up to say that "No" is essentially meaningless. It presupposes that it creates a problem or a logical error on behalf of Christians but it really doesn't (which is what I was addressing). It's like "Ha, Atheists, can you even PROVE that Julius was the father of Augustus? Just a straight yes or no, come on." And we'd scratch our heads wondering why they're asking such a question and what it has to do with our lack of faith.

We're disappearing off into analogies and such again ... fills up a lot off off-topic space around here.

I'm keeping the spotlight firmly on the possibly fictional Jesus character and the mythological god Yahweh and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Christians NEVER demonstrate than a single one of them exists ...

Let alone that the three of them are connected.

It looks like common old make-believe to me.

The door is still WIDE ...

[Tcg]

Can Christians demonstrate - other than quoting the propaganda or repeating their beliefs - that their Leader was indeed sired by Yahweh or the Holy Ghost on a human virgin?

It's a simple, straightforward question aimed at the very foundation of Christianity.

Please pay us the courtesy of answering directly this time.

Can Christians demonstrate - other than quoting the propaganda or repeating their beliefs - that their Leader was indeed sired by Yahweh or the Holy Ghost on a human virgin?

As a Christian, (and I cannot speak for all Christians) I cannot demonstrate what you ask in the least. This is answering a straightforward question, with a straightforward answer.

And that straightforward answer, from one Christian, is, "no".

Thank-you for answering the straightforward question the OP asks.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 11 by Realworldjack]

As a Christian, (and I cannot speak for all Christians) I cannot demonstrate what you ask in the least. This is answering a straightforward question, with a straightforward answer.

What I can demonstrate is, this was reported to have occured.

Thank you for your straightforward response.

You only have "reports" ...

Which are Jewish-Christian propaganda.

Propaganda "reporting" fantastical things about a Divine Leader with NO backup for the fantastical things ...

Is enough to suggest to me that it's make-believe and charlatanry ...

And to stay well away from it.

The world is full of make-believe and charlatanry.

I suggest that Christians - with the admission that the fantastical clams cannot be backed up - have been conned and are trapped in a mind-and-money control system that is as hard to escape as other mind-altering addictions.

This topic is seeking DIRECT demonstrations that it's true.

Please feel free to start another to challenge Atheists to demonstrate that it's false.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 10 by Don McIntosh]

My motivations are off-topic.

Please feel free to start another on the zealousness of Atheist missionaries.

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to post 14 by Tcg]

And I thank both of you for avoiding my straightforward question.

It seems to me we have at least one person here who is not afraid to face the truth. But the fact of the matter is, the burden of proof does not simply lie upon Christians to demonstrate what they may believe about what has been reported.

Because you see, it would be a fact that we have the reports contained in the NT, and there must be some sort of explanation for these reports. I happen to believe there is very strong evidence to suggest that these reports may in fact be true, but I am not insistent that I must, and have to be correct.

The point is, I understand that I cannot demonstrate that I would be correct. Rather, I understand all I can do is give the reasons I believe as I do.

The "straightforward" question to both of you is, can you admit that you can in no way demonstrate what it is you believe concerning the reports in the NT. Or, are you simply satisfied with, "I do not believe them, and that is enough evidence for me."

It is not enough to say, "they could be false", because what I would need is the facts, and the evidence that would demonstrate clearly that they are false.

It is not enough the say, "all these folks could have been deceived" because what I would need is the facts, and the evidence that would suggest such a thing.

It is not enough to say, "all these folks may have been mistaken", because what I would need is the facts, and the evidence that would at least suggest this to be the case.

So you see, we have these reports, and I can tell you what I believe about these reports, and I can also give you the facts, and the evidence that would support what it is I believe, but I could in no way demonstrate that what I believe would be true.

In other words, I am at least giving you the facts, and the evidence to back what it is I believe concerning these reports, without insisting that I must, and have to be correct.

So then, what evidence, and facts would you supply, to explain what you claim to believe concerning the reports contained in the NT.

Remember, simply saying "I do not believe them", would be no different than a Christian saying, "I believe them." On both sides, there must be a reason. So what is yours?

[Realworldjack]

[Replying to post 15 by StuartJ]

And I thank both of you for avoiding my straightforward question.

It seems to me we have at least one person here who is not afraid to face the truth. But the fact of the matter is, the burden of proof does not simply lie upon Christians to demonstrate what they may believe about what has been reported.

Because you see, it would be a fact that we have the reports contained in the NT, and there must be some sort of explanation for these reports. I happen to believe there is very strong evidence to suggest that these reports may in fact be true, but I am not insistent that I must, and have to be correct.

The point is, I understand that I cannot demonstrate that I would be correct. Rather, I understand all I can do is give the reasons I believe as I do.

The "straightforward" question to both of you is, can you admit that you can in no way demonstrate what it is you believe concerning the reports in the NT. Or, are you simply satisfied with, "I do not believe them, and that is enough evidence for me."

It is not enough to say, "they could be false", because what I would need is the facts, and the evidence that would demonstrate clearly that they are false.

It is not enough the say, "all these folks could have been deceived" because what I would need is the facts, and the evidence that would suggest such a thing.

It is not enough to say, "all these folks may have been mistaken", because what I would need is the facts, and the evidence that would at least suggest this to be the case.

So you see, we have these reports, and I can tell you what I believe about these reports, and I can also give you the facts, and the evidence that would support what it is I believe, but I could in no way demonstrate that what I believe would be true.

In other words, I am at least giving you the facts, and the evidence to back what it is I believe concerning these reports, without insisting that I must, and have to be correct.

So then, what evidence, and facts would you supply, to explain what you claim to believe concerning the reports contained in the NT.

Remember, simply saying "I do not believe them", would be no different than a Christian saying, "I believe them." On both sides, there must be a reason. So what is yours?

[Don McIntosh]

[Replying to post 10 by Don McIntosh]

My motivations are off-topic.

Please feel free to start another on the zealousness of Atheist missionaries.

I disagree. Remember that you have insisted that we somehow DEMONSTRATE the truth of Christianity without recourse to the EVIDENCE that supports the truth of Christianity ...

But that's ridiculous ...

We therefore have to find OTHER means to answer you. That includes suggesting the possibility that you are simply trolling, avoiding ACTUAL meaningful discussion like a plague ...

What I would like from you is a SHRED of evidence that these threads about Jesus being "Sired by Yahweh," etc., are posted for any other reason than to bait and annoy the Christian members here ...

Please provide that evidence NOW. Thank you.

[StuartJ]

[Replying to post 18 by Realworldjack]

Please start a new topic.

I'll see you there.