This Generation Will Not Pass Away:

[Overcomer]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

[polonius]

Overcomer asked:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

Response:
This generation was Jesus' present generation then alive.

Perhaps Matthews gospel will clarify that for you.

Matthew 16:28 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

But, of course, it didn't actually happen.

Have "all these things" actually happened yet?

Nope.

RESPONSE: Jesus' claim was obviously in error,

What are "these things" that you claim have not yet happened? Did Jesus identify them?

Therefore, "this generation" has not passed away.

Really?

Matthew 16:28 is not talking about "this generation" but about "some standing here".

RESPONSE: That would be the people standing there not any future generation

Or you are claiming that "some standing here" were really of some unspecified future generation?

Matthew 10: When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

But Jesus never came back!

Fundamentalists have a really tough job trying to explain away the plain meaning of words Jesus used rather than admit that there was no Second Coming.

[polonius]

Overcomer asked:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

Response:
This generation was Jesus' present generation then alive.

Perhaps Matthews gospel will clarify that for you.

Matthew 16:28 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

But, of course, it didn't actually happen.

Have "all these things" actually happened yet?

Nope.

RESPONSE: Jesus' claim was obviously in error,

What are "these things" that you claim have not yet happened? Did Jesus identify them?

Therefore, "this generation" has not passed away.

Really?

Matthew 16:28 is not talking about "this generation" but about "some standing here".

RESPONSE: That would be the people standing there not any future generation

Or you are trying to have us believe that "some standing here" were really of some unspecified future generation?

Matthew 10: When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

But Jesus never came back!

Fundamentalists have a really tough job trying to explain away the plain meaning of words Jesus used describing his Second coming rather than simply recognize that there was no Second Coming.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 334 by polonius]

Have "all these things" actually happened yet?

Nope.

RESPONSE: Jesus' claim was obviously in error,

What are "these things" that you claim have not yet happened? Did Jesus identify them?

Matthew 24:

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Therefore, "this generation" has not passed away.

Really?

Matthew 16:28 is not talking about "this generation" but about "some standing here".

RESPONSE: Wow! Those people must be powerfully old now, don't you think.

Or you are claiming that "some standing here" were really of a future generation?[/quote]

Good try.

Not a future generation, and not old in years.

A generation that began with Cain, and will last until the present heaven and earth pass away.

"This generation" applies corporately, not individually.

"Some standing here" excludes others "standing here".

[polonius]

Has Jesus returned yet?

It it the Jehovah Witnesses who claim that Jesus did in 1914 but is invisible.

[polonius]

[quote="polonius"]

Has Jesus returned yet?

It it the Jehovah Witnesses who claim that Jesus did return in 1914 but is invisible.

"The lands South of Jerusalem will be turned into a plain and Jerusalem itself will be raised up. (Zechariah 14:4-11) Jerusalem then becomes the capital city of the world, from which Christ will rule over the whole earth. (Isaiah 2:2-4, Micah 4:1-3)"

Did any of this happen in Jesus' generation?

[polonius]

Has Jesus returned yet?

Isn't it the Jehovah Witnesses who claim that Jesus did return in 1914 but remains invisible.

"The lands South of Jerusalem will be turned into a plain and Jerusalem itself will be raised up. (Zechariah 14:4-11) Jerusalem then becomes the capital city of the world, from which Christ will rule over the whole earth. (Isaiah 2:2-4, Micah 4:1-3)"

Did any of this happen in Jesus' generation?

[shnarkle]

Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple and signs of the end times in Matt. 24:1-35:

1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 Do you see all these things? he asked. Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. Tell us, they said, when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?

4 Jesus answered: Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, I am the Messiah, and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation,[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel"let the reader understand" 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now"and never to be equaled again.

22 If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Messiah! or, There he is! do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 So if anyone tells you, There he is, out in the wilderness, do not go out; or, Here he is, in the inner rooms, do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 Immediately after the distress of those days


the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

30 Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32 Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

Verse 34 has been the subject of many a debate. My questions are as follows:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

It's the same generation he's talking to. The Pharisees understood that the "evil generation" was referring to them, and this is why they were so offended at Christ's judgment upon Jerusalem. Jesus is an apocalyptic prophet, and he uses the exact same judement language used by his predesessors, e.g. falling stars, no moonlight, or sunlight, etc. This is all synonymous with "his coming (in judgment)".

[shnarkle]

Overcomer asked:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

Response:
This generation was Jesus' present generation then alive.

Perhaps Matthews gospel will clarify that for you.

Matthew 16:28 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

But, of course, it didn't actually happen.

The destruction of Jerusalem most certainly did happen which is exactly what is meant by Christ's judgment language. How to we know this? Because this is explicitly what he says:

the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him Jn. 12:48

This should never be conflated with his words pointing out that those who believe should be saved through him, and those who believed left before the destruction of Jerusalem.

[polonius]

Overcomer asked:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

Response:
This generation was Jesus' present generation then alive.

Perhaps Matthews gospel will clarify that for you.

Matthew 16:28 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

But, of course, it didn't actually happen.

The destruction of Jerusalem most certainly did happen which is exactly what is meant by Christ's judgment language. How to we know this? Because this is explicitly what he says:

the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him Jn. 12:48

This should never be conflated with his words pointing out that those who believe should be saved through him, and those who believed left before the destruction of Jerusalem.

RESPONSE: You are seriously off topic. The issue is Jesus return or failure to return as he promised those in his generation. Nothing about the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple.

[polonius]

Overcomer asked:

What did Jesus mean when he said "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened?" Who is "this generation"?

Response:
This generation was Jesus' present generation then alive.

Perhaps Matthews gospel will clarify that for you.

Matthew 16:28 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
"Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

But, of course, it didn't actually happen.

The destruction of Jerusalem most certainly did happen which is exactly what is meant by Christ's judgment language. How to we know this? Because this is explicitly what he says:

the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him Jn. 12:48

This should never be conflated with his words pointing out that those who believe should be saved through him, and those who believed left before the destruction of Jerusalem.

RESPONSE: You are seriously off topic. The issue is Jesus' return (or failure to return) as he promised those in his generation ('standing there.". Nothing about the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple is involved.