If God died tomorrow, would we know? How would we know?

[ytrewq]

If God died tomorrow, would we know? How would we know?

Lets assume for a minute that your God exists. If it (I presume gods are sexless) died tomorrow, or moved to another universe or whatever, would we know? If so, then how would we know?

Presumably atheists would claim that nothing would change. After all, science has no need of gods, so planetary motion would continue, the sky would not fall in, the sun would rise each morning as it always did and so on. And an atheist presumably believes that our morality would not change either.

But what of those that do believe in a God. How would you know if your god died? Would you know at all? How would you know?

[otseng]

intended to deflect attention from your inability to answer a question. Perhaps you might have done better to simply have said something like "I do not know the answer to that"

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[Donray]

[Replying to post 13 by JehovahsWitness]

How did Thor die? People stopped believing. So that is how one kills gods, stop believing on them.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 13 by JehovahsWitness]

How did Thor die? People stopped believing. So that is how one kills gods, stop believing on them.

Very well stated and right to the heart of the matter.

Once humans go extinct, all the gods will be dead, unless some other species starts giving them life through their creativity. If so, I sure hope they invent nicer gods than we did.

[ytrewq]

[Replying to post 1 by ytrewq]

If God died tomorrow, would we know? How would we know?

Lets assume for a minute that your God exists. If it (I presume gods are sexless) died tomorrow, or moved to another universe or whatever, would we know? If so, then how would we know?

My own idea of GOD is that IT has always existed and will always exist, so cannot 'die' in the way you mean.

Also, my own idea of GOD is that IT is everywhere and cannot be anywhere we are not.

So at least with this one theist belief, GOD cannot either die or be thoroughly removed from individuate consciousness, other than to un-create all things so that only Consciousness remains, and form is extinguished.

This is because, my own idea of GOD is that IT is consciousness, and since we are all consciousness, we effectively are unable to exist within our particular experience, without GOD.

We are all aspects of GOD. If GOD (all consciousness) removed Its Self from this universe, then this universe might as well not exist because in order for anything to be said to exist, consciousness is that which gets to say so.

Very often I find myself agreeing with you, but re your specific pantheistic religious beliefs we could as well be on different planets, and speak different languages.

But I do like your approach though. Not regurgitating a holy book, and making it clear that these are your considered beliefs, not some absolute truth that cannot be questioned because the holy book said so.

Curious stuff. I'll button my lips for now, or we might be in debate for a long time.

[Tart]

After all, science has no need of gods, so planetary motion would continue, the sky would not fall in, the sun would rise each morning as it always did and so on. And an atheist presumably believes that our morality would not change either.

What if the God you claim who is irrelevant, created you and everything around you?

What if he did? I was prepared to assume for the purpose of the question that a God existed, and went ahead and answered the question to the best of my ability.

Are you similarly prepared to answer the question?

Well if God exists, the Christian God, he is "eternal"... So this question isnt really intelligible in that sense...


Eternal (adjective): lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.

[ytrewq]

After all, science has no need of gods, so planetary motion would continue, the sky would not fall in, the sun would rise each morning as it always did and so on. And an atheist presumably believes that our morality would not change either.

What if the God you claim who is irrelevant, created you and everything around you?

What if he did? I was prepared to assume for the purpose of the question that a God existed, and went ahead and answered the question to the best of my ability.

Are you similarly prepared to answer the question?

Well if God exists, the Christian God, he is "eternal"... So this question isnt really intelligible in that sense...


Eternal (adjective): lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.

Sure, I understand what you are saying. But as an atheist, I could equally say :-

Because I don't believe that Gods exist, the question isn't really intelligible ...

But to my credit, I still answered the question on the basis of a hypothetical "what-if", so it is not unreasonable to expect theists to do the same.

This is the situation that atheists are in every time they discuss anything about a claimed God, we are prepared to pretend that one exists for the purposes of the discussion, and apparently that has never occurred to most theists. Atheists are really very, very flexible and accommodating in this respect.

[Tart]

After all, science has no need of gods, so planetary motion would continue, the sky would not fall in, the sun would rise each morning as it always did and so on. And an atheist presumably believes that our morality would not change either.

What if the God you claim who is irrelevant, created you and everything around you?

What if he did? I was prepared to assume for the purpose of the question that a God existed, and went ahead and answered the question to the best of my ability.

Are you similarly prepared to answer the question?

Well if God exists, the Christian God, he is "eternal"... So this question isnt really intelligible in that sense...


Eternal (adjective): lasting or existing forever; without end or beginning.

Sure, I understand what you are saying. But as an atheist, I could equally say :-

Because I don't believe that Gods exist, the question isn't really intelligible ...

But to my credit, I still answered the question on the basis of a hypothetical "what-if", so it is not unreasonable to expect theists to do the same.

This is the situation that atheists are in every time they discuss anything about a claimed God, we are prepared to pretend that one exists for the purposes of the discussion, and apparently that has never occurred to most theists. Atheists are really very, very flexible and accommodating in this respect.

Well i suppose it all depends on what "God" we are talking about. Sure, many people create gods in the imagination, in which case we could say whatever we want about the god we imagined. However, I dont claim to have created the God i worship. In fact, everything I know about God has been revealed to me, from beyond my own mind. I can certainly ponder about the things unknown, but couldnt give a conclusive answer without some kind of reasonable evidence, or logic. Therefor i dont think this question has an answer twords the God i believe in.

[historia]

If God died tomorrow, would we know? How would we know?

As several other participants have alluded, in classical theism, God is conceived of as not just creating the universe but also sustaining the universe. That is, everything that exists depends on God continuing to actively sustain its ongoing existence.

If God were suddenly to cease to exist, then the cosmos would also blink out of existence at that same moment.

In that sense, I guess the answer to your question is 'no', we would have no way of 'knowing' that God had 'died' because we would stop existing ourselves.

[ytrewq]

If God died tomorrow, would we know? How would we know?

As several other participants have alluded, in classical theism, God is conceived of as not just creating the universe but also sustaining the universe. That is, everything that exists depends on God continuing to actively sustain its ongoing existence.

The problem with the "classical theistic" view is that modern science has found otherwise. For example, planetary motion and the operation of stars (eg our sun) is well understood, and does not require a God. Is the accumulated knowledge of all modern science wrong? Anyone that thinks it is is living in a dream, surely?

In Biblical times, such knowledge did not exist, and it would have been very reasonable to think that a God was controlling the motion of the Earth and planets, keeping the stars and sun alight, and creating lightening and thunder, and so on.

But our knowledge has progressed. Is it reasonable to keep pretending that our knowledge of such things has not developed in the past 2000 years? Is it reasonable to close our eyes and pretend to believe things that we now know are not true? Do you in any way dispute, for example, that planetary motion happens because of the natural laws of physics, with no intervention or assistance required?

The days of believing that there is a bearded "Him", somewhere in the sky, twirling the earth and creating thunder are long gone. It is time to move forward, and adopt a "modern theistic view", if theism is to maintain respect, believability and relevance.

[William]

[Replying to post 38 by historia]

In that sense, I guess the answer to your question is 'no', we would have no way of 'knowing' that God had 'died' because we would stop existing ourselves.

This is precisely WHY it is necessary to include in any theist ideas, that GOD and creation are not separated.

The Dangers of Separating Human Consciousness From Any Idea of GOD

Separating any idea of GOD from All other Consciousness.