God designed cancer and birth defects.

[Jagella]

Apologists and creationists in particular love to wow us with the amazing design of the world. We have many beautiful animals and plants to ogle. And if that isn't amazing enough, we have discovered a genetic code we call "DNA" that exists in each of the trillions of our cells. This code lays out a blueprint for what we all are--amazing, functional, and beautiful beings! Surely a god must be responsible for all this wonder because we need a designer to explain DNA.

But wait. It doesn't always work out in a good way. DNA often "malfunctions" resulting in cancer and birth defects. What kind of design is that? What monster-god would plan that babies are born without eyes and that people would suffer and die as cancer cells multiply wildly and destroy their bodies?

Question for Debate: Did the Bible god design cancer and birth defects?

[ttruscott]

Bible tells everything God created was good.

If that is true, then the Bible contradicts itself:

"Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

God himself takes credit for evil. I wonder why so many theists want to take this credit from Him? He sounds quite proud of his accomplishment.

<headshake, facepalm> Your scholarship misses the mark. The word evil in Isa 45:7 is rah: Strong's H7451 - ra -

A full interpretation of this word is:
adjective
bad, evil
bad, disagreeable, malignant
bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)
evil, displeasing
bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)
bad (of value)
worse than, worst (comparison)
sad, unhappy
evil (hurtful)
bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)
bad, evil, wicked (ethically)

in general, of persons, of thoughts
deeds, actions

masculine noun
evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity
evil, distress, adversity
evil, injury, wrong
evil (ethical)

feminine noun
evil, misery, distress, injury
evil, misery,distress
evil, injury, wrong
evil (ethical)

so it is obvious that the range of meaning of this one word rah is from displeasing, unpleasant, sad or unhappy, etc, to moral evil. Since the Bible doesn't contradict itself, the meaning cannot be a reference to moral evil because GOD is always depicted as righteous and good, so in its harshest meaning it must refer to the calamities of judgment He inflicts upon the wicked.

Sure, if someone wanted to make a case for YHWH being morally evil this might be a place to start but in the face of the rest of the Bible this is a no-go and so has been relegated to those with no scholarship for years.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 31 by ttruscott]

By human standards God is morally evil. You get around it with your flawed PCE theory.

Spirits and their realms are as much created realities as our own. In fact they are our own if the Bible is correct.

Genesis 1:1
[ The Beginning ] In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Isaiah 24:21-22 New International Version (NIV)

21 In that day the Lord will punish
the powers in the heavens above
and the kings on the earth below.

22 They will be herded together
like prisoners bound in a dungeon;
they will be shut up in prison
and be punished[a] after many days.

New International Version (NIV)

6 I said, You are gods;
you are all sons of the Most High.
7 But you will die like mere mortals;
you will fall like every other ruler.

[ttruscott]

Bible tells everything God created was good. If cancer and birth defects are not good, I dont think they are from God. In Biblical point of view, it is possible that they are result of that people rejected God and His protection, turned into evil.

So since God felt rejected, he caused people to get cancer and have babies with defects? God obviously can't take rejection. If I was God, then I'd make sure people live happy, healthy lives even if I felt rejected by them. That way they would be less likely to reject me.

1.
GOD had no dismay over being rejected except as it affected HIS creation making them eternally unable to fulfill HIS purpose for their creation.

There is a doctrine you have missed that contends that a little leaven (sin) leavens (corrupts ) the whole lump (person, state, reality). The effects of evil are pernicious and it must be eradicated from the reality of HIS heavenly marriage or heaven is doomed to be overturned.

The effect of the unforgivable sin is that by their free will choice to reject HIM and HIS help they put themselves beyond HIS help for ever (if their free will choice is not sacrosanct, free will means nothing) AND since they cannot save themselves from either their enslavement to sin nor HIS righteous judgments upon them for choosing sin, they are condmened for choosing to become eternally evil against all HIS warnings and so must be banished to the outer darkness forever.

2.
All suffering is a judgement on the evil reprobate men do OR it is a painful discipline with a rehabilitative intent to encourage a change of behaviour in HIS sinful elect to the end they repent and become holy and heaven ready.

Your answer to just keep the Satanic happy and all will be well is naive. As they practice evil so they become even more evil (the leaven thing). The height of evil in human society is the psychopath but even they have more evil heights to reach, that is, they will become demons, that is, totally compulsively evil, in their hatred for GOD and HIS people.

The heavenly marriage is a fully emotional (loving) and communicative telepathic union in which everyone in the heavenly link / state is in full communion with everyone else in the heavenly state. Can you imagine the destruction that would ensue if those who had become totally demonic were to be allowed to share that telepathic link? This is the reason that Satan and his demonic angels must be banished to the outer darkness.

Your assessment of the situation as described by Christians and your answer misses the mark due to a lack of understanding of Christian definition of reality.

[Deleted]

"replying to post 22 by Tcg"

If that is true, then the Bible contradicts itself:

"Isaiah 45:7 - I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

More than what 1213 points out on etymology, there is need to pay attention to the doublets going on in the verse:

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

The clue for you should have been the creation of darkness. In Physics, no one tries to explain the cause of darkness as a thing. It's the absence of light. Same with cold. Nothing creates cold as a thing. It is the absence of heat.

The statements in v 7 are consequences of the right side item when creating the left side item. Creating light necessitates the consequence of darkness. So the Lord doesn't have to culpably create darkness as a thing.

When He creates peace as a moral choice, war or conflict result when man chooses not to be peaceable. God did not force anyone to choose that consequence.

Neither can you blame Him for creating merely the consequence as if He is culpable of the choice of those consequences.

If I open up a light switch and forget to turn off power and I get killed touching the live wire, my wife can't sue the electric company as culpable in my death.

[ttruscott]

And if I was a god I wouldn't create evil people to begin with. That way the issue of what to do with evil people would be moot because there would be no evil people!

A wonderful idea...you should have been there with GOD at creation to help HIM decide about that!

But wait, only a few wayward Christians believe HE created any evil people at all so we are on the same page absolutely. We just believe that since HE created us to enter into the full telepathic unity of communion called a marriage which was to be based upon true love, HE created us with a free will to be able to accept or reject HIS proposal as neither love nor a true marriage can be forced upon the Bride.

So everyone got an equal ability and opportunity to put their faith in HIM (becoming elect) or to reject HIM (becoming eternally evil) which describes the situation those who chose to be sinful in HIS sight are in now on earth. Sure, creating everyone with no ability to choose evil (no free will) would certainly take care of the problem of suffering but it could never fulfill HIS purpose of the heavenly marriage, alas.

So don't knock GOD for the evils of some of HIS creation - HIS heaven is coming soon.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 31 by ttruscott]

By human standards God is morally evil. You get around it with your flawed PCE theory.

Thank you...

[postroad]

[Replying to post 35 by ttruscott]

An uncreated God couldn't exist in his creation. Whatever is coming soon is a created reality and would have a beginning and an end simply by being subject to time.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 35 by ttruscott]An uncreated God couldn't exist in his creation.

Oh? My I see your evidence and or proof, please?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 38 by ttruscott]

Logic dictates that something that has a beginning and an end wouldn't be able to contain something without beginning or end.

God is clearly portrayed as having created the heavens and the earth and all entities contained in them.

From his perspective that creation began and ended instantaneously.

Psalm 148:13
Let them praise the name of the Lord, for his name alone is exalted; his splendor is above the earth and the heavens.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 38 by ttruscott]

Logic dictates that something that has a beginning and an end wouldn't be able to contain something without beginning or end.

You didn't say creation could not contain HIM you said HE could not exist there but HIS existence easily could fill creation and far more.