God designed cancer and birth defects.

[Jagella]

Apologists and creationists in particular love to wow us with the amazing design of the world. We have many beautiful animals and plants to ogle. And if that isn't amazing enough, we have discovered a genetic code we call "DNA" that exists in each of the trillions of our cells. This code lays out a blueprint for what we all are--amazing, functional, and beautiful beings! Surely a god must be responsible for all this wonder because we need a designer to explain DNA.

But wait. It doesn't always work out in a good way. DNA often "malfunctions" resulting in cancer and birth defects. What kind of design is that? What monster-god would plan that babies are born without eyes and that people would suffer and die as cancer cells multiply wildly and destroy their bodies?

Question for Debate: Did the Bible god design cancer and birth defects?

[Tcg]

Not if God created creatures with free will. They become creators of evil and ugliness by certain choices. If God created robots, He's responsible for their actions. Not so with free will creatures.

If you are referring to the God of the Bible, it is odd that he never bothered to explain any of this in his book.

It's almost as if his followers had to invent this line of thinking to cover the ugliness his sovereignty creates.

Odd that in doing so, they never realize they have created a God who not only isn't found in the Bible, but also ends up not being a God at all.

Puny little humans can bring his plans to a grinding halt anytime they please.

[Deleted]

"Tcg"

If you are referring to the God of the Bible, it is odd that he never bothered to explain any of this in his book.

You say you're familiar with the Bible, then proceed to make statements like these.

God states clearly that no moral evil resides in Him, that He does no moral evil.
Deut 32:4, Habakkuk 1:13, James 1:13 ff

He also states that Satan was a created being and rebelled; and that evil and wickedness come from Satan. "He is a liar and the father of it."

He also says that mankind is another free will source of wickedness.

".. that every imagination of the thoughts of their hearts was evil continually."
and elsewhere -
man's heart "is desperately wicked, who can know it" and

"in sin did my mother conceive me" not "in sin did God conceive me."

It's almost as if his followers had to invent this line of thinking to cover the ugliness his sovereignty creates.

Almost as if means you actually don't know. If you neglect the wisdom of God, is it any wonder when you arrive at strange harbors?

Puny little humans can bring his plans to a grinding halt anytime they please.

If "puny little creatures" win some battles but lose the whole war, whose plans came to naught and whose succeeded in the end?

[Tcg]

"Tcg"

If you are referring to the God of the Bible, it is odd that he never bothered to explain any of this in his book.

You say you're familiar with the Bible, then proceed to make statements like these.

I never stated that I am familiar with the Bible, but the fact is that I am very familiar with the Bible.

None of the verses you quoted teach the things you claim about free will and God. They don't even address them.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 52 by mrhagerty]


Did God want Satan to rebel?

[Deleted]

"Replying to post 50 by William"

The three post replying to my own appear to neglect the OPQ, in their considerations when arguing against my own reasoning.

Question for Debate: Did the Bible god design cancer and birth defects?

Actually I responded directly to the OP above in "Post 30" and you have ignored it.

The implication is that so - called 'free will' for humans to choose 'sin' is that it is 'sin' which creates the cancer and birth defects, if design is how things happen.

How is it a matter of design if free-will creatures can choose sin in and of themselves? Providing the choice is not the same as making the choice.

Christianities 'answers' that GOD is outside of [his] creation and only placed humans inside the universe because they were 'evil' (as with ttruscott's beliefs) or placed us inside the universe but 'because of human sinfulness + free will = physical changes in the universe happened' is all a natural aspect of argument based upon nonnegotiable faith-based beliefs, which are a pointless waste of time debating.

Then you need to have words with Jagella because he created a thread that poses God designed cancer. By starting a debate and referring to what God did, he opened the door to faith-based beliefs.
As for you, you aren't living up to your dictum since you've already wasted time here responding (something you said you were loath to do).

"Free Will" has not even been established as a real attribute humans actually have anyway.

So you don't believe you have free will to act as an independent mind?

The other aspect of this type of faith-based belief is that it also requires an antagonist GOD . .

Requires? As in demands? How so?

When you tell your children if they cross the street to play they will be punished, are you an antagonist parent or a protagonist?

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 47 by ttruscott

Are you claiming a Spiritually revealed truth?

Yup.

If so, how is it that you have to flog it 247 year after year?

...because not everyone gets the truth revealed to them in the Spirit.

[ttruscott]

It is a religion which has two opposing GODs with human beings as the meat in the middle.

Not just passive meat either but being beat on by both sides for indulging in sin and for their faith in Christ, sigh.

[ttruscott]

Puny little humans can bring his plans to a grinding halt anytime they please.

No one brought his plans to a grinding halt ever. HE elected Christ to be the slain Lamb before anyone sinned proving the fall of the Satanic and the fall of the elect were within HIS plan. HE had all of life planned at the creation of the physical universe. What part was foiled?

HE gave us a free will to choose good or evil and we all chose, some good and some evil and some both. This was within HIS plan. The separation was of all those HE created who wanted to live with HIM in HIS heaven HIS way by HIS rules FROM all those who did not want to do that and who would rather go to hell than accept it.

This separation was established...and now HE's finalizing HIS end game of sanctifying the sinful good seed so the judgment may proceed.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 52 by mrhagerty]


Did God want Satan to rebel?

No. Everyone was created with the ability to become holy if they chose.

[Tcg]

Puny little humans can bring his plans to a grinding halt anytime they please.

No one brought his plans to a grinding halt ever.

Of course they have. At least according to some Christians posting here.

The existence of cancer and birth defects proves it, at least according to their claims related to God and free will.

This conflict reveals the problem of taking mythologies seriously. Logically flawed arguments are created to cover for logically flawed arguments. It's like using Elmer's glue in an attempt to patch the San Andreas Fault. While it may be amusing to watch such an effort, it solves nothing.