Jesus is God

[For_The_Kingdom]

First of all, I never knew that so many suspected "unbelievers" in the Christian religion were so fascinated about whether or not Jesus is God. If you don't believe in Jesus or God, then why do you care? It blows my mind.

Anyway..

I have a Biblically simplistic way of proving that Jesus is God..

Argument from Perfection: The Bible is clear, Jesus was/is without sin (morally perfect). The argument goes like this..

1. Only God is without sin
2. Jesus is without sin
3. Therefore, Jesus is God

#1 is virtually undisputed. #2 is Biblical based on two immediate Scriptures..

a. 2 Corin 5:21 "For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him".

b. Heb 4:15 "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin".

Now, the idea is; if you replace Jesus' name in #2 with ANY other name in Heaven or on Earth, the proposition becomes false and the entire syllogism is false.

The conclusion is simple; in order to be God, you must be without sin..and to be without sin, you must be God. Jesus meets/met those requirements, therefore, Jesus is God.

Argument from John 14:1-9: Long story short, Jesus was constantly preaching/lecturing about "The Father this, The Father that"...until Philip finally said "Lord, show us the Father, and that will be good enough"...and Jesus said, "He who has seen me has seen the Father".

Jesus is saying that seeing him is the same has seeing the Father...but if the Father is on SUCH A HIGH PEDESTAL and is light years ahead of any other entity in Heaven or on Earth, how dare Jesus say "He who has seen me has seen the Father".

In other words, if the Father took on human form and made his dwelling among us on Earth, his form would be Jesus.

If the Father is God, and Jesus said to see him is to see the Father, then Jesus must also be God. This just follows logically.

Argument from Hebrews 1:3: "The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.."

This is the same reasoning applied to Heb 4 (above). If God is the holiest of all holiest, how can any other being come close, must less be the "exact representation" of his being?

How can you be the "exact representation" of someone that is the epitome of holiness/righteousness...unless you yourself is also the epitome of holiness/righteousness?

Actually, you can sum up all three arguments as the "Argument from Perfection"..and of course, there are plenty of other "Trinity proof" Scriptures that I can throw in there, but I wanted to attack this from a different angel.

And lastly, as much as these arguments harmonize, they are all independent...so even if you manage to wiggle your way out of one...you still have to deal with the others.

Actually, there is no way out; Jesus is God, whether we like it or not.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 8 by myth-one.com]

A man that claims to be God but isn't would be a blasphemer who died in accordance with the Law.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 8 by myth-one.com]

New International Version (NIV)

57 “You are not yet fifty years old,� they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!�

58 “Very truly I tell you,� Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!� 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 8 by myth-one.com]

A man that claims to be God but isn't would be a blasphemer who died in accordance with the Law.

Where did Jesus say "I am God"? If he did make the claim indirectly, why so coy about it? Why not just come out with it if Jesus was, indeed, God?

[postroad]

[Replying to post 13 by Elijah John]
For the same reason that the whole Of the Bible is coy about ever concept believers claim.
That being that the "truth" can be molded to whatever situation arises.

Pauline Christianity came out on top but it wasn't always a guaranteed outcome. The texts as you are witnessing can be argued either way if required.

1 Corinthians 2:7
No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.

Matthew 11:14-15 New International Version (NIV)

14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. 15 Whoever has ears, let them hear.

[myth-one.com]

Your fixation on the fate of the body leads you astray...

Really?

The Bible states that there are two type of bodies -- natural and spiritual:

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

Each of these two body types defined in the Bible require a separate and distinct type of birth:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (John 3:6)

In addition, the two body types are never said to be mixed. In regards to man, the natural body comes first and the spiritual body comes last if at all.

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. (I Corinthians 15:46)

They are different and are never merged together at anytime in the scriptures!

All men are born as natural or physical flesh and blood bodies, and those who believe in Jesus will be born again of the Spirit as spiritual bodies upon the return of Jesus!

Writing to the Christians at Corinth, here is how Paul puts it:

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. (I Corinthians 15:42-45)

This scripture is not complicated.

The Christian body that is sown is corruptible, dishonored, weak, and a natural body. This is the physical body which is buried like a seed, or sown, when we die.

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies!

This is exactly what the above verses state!

===============================================

The meaning of 'death' is variable.

Dead = not alive. Now it's fixed.

It can mean the death of one's body or the eternal separation from GOD as found in the banishment to the outer darkness.

If someone is separated or banished, they are alive.

I reject that the spirits created in GOD's image can be annihilated so death does not mean annihilation.

Once created, no spiritual body can be destroyed or annihlated!

It's wrong to use mortal about the spirit that survives the death of its body...only bodies are mortal . . .

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (I Corinthians 15:44)

There are natural bodied beings and spiritual bodied beings.

Both type of beings have bodies!

Your claiming that both type of bodies are mortal?

Good luck with that.

[postroad]

[Replying to post 15 by myth-one.com]

Did God create both the spiritual and the physical realms and everything in them?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 15 by myth-one.com]

Did God create both the spiritual and the physical realms and everything in them?

Yes He did.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3)

[postroad]

[Replying to post 17 by myth-one.com]


If both have a beginning how is it that you claim the spiritual can't be destroyed?

[Overcomer]

myth-one.com wrote this:

i]But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. (Hebrews 2:9)[/i]

You have quoted the New World Translation, a Bible that was written to match the teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Since they did not believe that Jesus was God Incarnate, they had to alter that verse. See here:

https://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html

https://carm.org/bad-translations-jehov ... ranslation

This is how the verse from Hebrews really reads:

But there is a place where someone has testified: "What is mankind that you are mindful of them, a son of man that you care for him? You made them a little lower than the angels; you crowned them with glory and honor and put everything under their feet." In putting everything under them, God left nothing that is not subject to them. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to them. But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Please note the phrase "for a little while". It refers to the fact that Jesus, as the Second person of the Trinity came to earth as both man AND God for a brief amount of time.

This is confirmed here in these verses from the second chapter of Philippians:

Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

7
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

8
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross

The Greek word translated "nature" means "essence", that is, "what makes God God" and it is used of Christ. He humbled himself to become a man, giving up his rights as God the Son, the Second Person of the Trinity. So he was a little lower than the angels only for the brief time he was on earth as God Incarnate.

myth-one.com wrote:

If Jesus was God, then He could not fulfill His mission, and we would have no Savior!

Actually, the exact opposite is true. In the Old Testament, people sacrificed animals to cover their sins. Those sacrifices had to be made over and over and over because the sacrifices didn't remove their sins. Note that a sacrificial lamb was to be unblemished (Ex. 12:5).

Only a man could die and atone for the sins of humankind, but all men are sinners. The only sacrifice that was acceptable to God was a man without sin. But since all men are sinners, that means none of us could do the job. The only way a man could be unblemished, that is, sin-free is for him to be also God. That's why it's imperative that Jesus was BOTH man AND God. Otherwise, he could not have died in our place and atoned for our sins. Peter put it this way:

For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your ancestors, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect. (1 Peter 1:19).

myth-one wrote:

All men are born as natural or physical flesh and blood bodies, and those who believe in Jesus will be born again of the Spirit as spiritual bodies upon the return of Jesus!

The Christian body that is sown is corruptible, dishonored, weak, and a natural body. This is the physical body which is buried like a seed, or sown, when we die.

At the resurrection, Christians are raised up as incorruptible, glorified, powerful, spiritual bodies!

Your first statement is wrong. Your second two are correct, but I don't think you understand why. We are created as tripartite beings, having soul (mind), spirit and body. Paul states it here:

Now may the God of peace himself make you completely holy and may your spirit and soul and body be kept entirely blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ ((1 Thess. 5:23)

For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow (body), and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart (Hebrews 4:12).

And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit� (Acts 7:9). See here:

https://bible.org/seriespage/2-man-trin ... -soul-body

The verses you have quoted re: the resurrection refers to just that -- our resurrected bodies. Those bodies are called spiritual bodies, meaning that they are glorified bodies that will never grow old, get sick or perish. It has nothing to do with us, on this earth, prior to death and resurrection not having spirits as you suggest. You are misunderstanding and misapplying those verses. See here:

https://www.gotquestions.org/glorification.html

We are born with spirits dead in sin. Christ brings them alive (called regeneration or being born again) when we accept his gift of salvation. See here:

https://www.gotquestions.org/spiritually-dead.html

[postroad]

[Replying to post 19 by Overcomer]

But Jesus the man sinned by claiming to be God.