“I don’t believe in evolution�

[Zzyzx]

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You (generic term) don’t ‘believe in’ evolution because it has not been proved to your satisfaction. Correct?

Do you believe tales of human parthenogenesis (virgin birth), reanimation of long dead bodies (‘resurrection’), Earth flooded to ‘tops of mountains’, donkeys and snakes talking, demons being cast into swine which drown themselves, ‘faith can move mountains’ (literally), supernatural characters influencing human lives, etc?

Have all the latter been proved to your satisfaction? If so, what is that proof?

[1213]

Galapagos study finds that new species can develop in as little as two generations

The study comes from work conducted on Darwin's finches, which live on the Galapagos Islands in the Pacific Ocean. The remote location has enabled researchers to study the evolution of biodiversity due to natural selection.

The direct observation of the origin of this new species occurred during field work carried out over the last four decades by B. Rosemary and Peter Grant, two scientists from Princeton, on the small island of Daphne Major.

https://phys.org/news/2017-11-galapagos-species.html

Ok, thank you. So, if evolution means for example that me and you can have different eye color, then I can accept evolution is real. If evolution would mean that species evolve so that there are really meaningful changes, then we don’t have any real evidence for it, for example land animal to sea creature.

There is nothing in the theory of evolution that states that one should be able to breed a mouse into a fish. This idea is based on a complete misunderstanding of evolution.

Wikipedia seems to disagree with you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_tetrapods

[1213]

How about supported scientifically. With mountains of evidence. Including the reason many bacteria are no longer phased by older antibiotics.

That is like saying, if I chose tomorrow to eat only meat, then I have evolved and become new species.

They are nothing alike. If you want to see evolution in action, you can do that. Observe any living organism reproduce. Voila, you just observed evolution. Unless of course you think reproduction results in clones.

Ok, sorry, in this case I should have been more accurate. If evolution theory means that all modern animals are offspring of simple organism, which offspring has evolved to all current species, then I say it has no proof or evidence. If evolution means that people can have different colors or similar meaningless differences, then I can accept it, but it is not vey meaningful and it doesn’t mean all species have evolved from simple organisms.

[Tcg]

Ok, thank you. So, if evolution means for example that me and you can have different eye color, then I can accept evolution is real. If evolution would mean that species evolve so that there are really meaningful changes, then we don’t have any real evidence for it, for example land animal to sea creature.

We do. We don't have evidence of breeding mice into fish as you expect to see.

There is nothing in the theory of evolution that states that one should be able to breed a mouse into a fish. This idea is based on a complete misunderstanding of evolution.

Wikipedia seems to disagree with you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_tetrapods

Nope. Wikipedia disagrees with you. There is no mention of mice and certainly no mention of breeding them into fish.



Tcg

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]

You (generic term) don’t ‘believe in’ evolution because it has not been proved to your satisfaction. Correct?

Evolution is impossible. It has no mechanism for advancing change in an organism. Next time you see someone with an extra finger and then that extra finger turn into something useful. Let me know.

Do you believe tales of human parthenogenesis (virgin birth), reanimation of long dead bodies (‘resurrection’), Earth flooded to ‘tops of mountains’, donkeys and snakes talking, demons being cast into swine which drown themselves, ‘faith can move mountains’ (literally), supernatural characters influencing human lives, etc?

Why not all of these events have been observed. Evolution has not been observed. Nor can it be observed. The people who lived in these areas who would have known truth behind these events believed these events took place, just like the eyewitnesses said they did. Having eyewitnesses of events that actually happen are much more convincing then, made of stories of what some people hoped happen.

[Zzyzx]

.
Is your post intended as satire?

You (generic term) don’t ‘believe in’ evolution because it has not been proved to your satisfaction. Correct?

Evolution is impossible.

If that was true, microbes could not become antibiotic resistant. (Evolution = genetic change through generations)

It has no mechanism for advancing change in an organism.

The processes involved in reproduction are not flawless. Changes (‘mistakes’) can occur in genetic material (DNA). Those genetic changes alter the genetic makeup of offspring.

Next time you see someone with an extra finger and then that extra finger turn into something useful. Let me know.

Cute.

The presence of a sixth finger, referred to as polydactyly, occurs in one in 3,000 births. It is one of the most common malformations of the hand and can result in either a fully formed sixth digit or a small skin tag on the side of the hand. https://www.reference.com/health/common ... c823d02bdb

The condition indicates a genetic mutation which can be passed on to offspring. Here is an example of a family that shares the condition.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life ... 12-6448609

Also see: https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main ... lekey=7756

Do you believe tales of human parthenogenesis (virgin birth), reanimation of long dead bodies (‘resurrection’), Earth flooded to ‘tops of mountains’, donkeys and snakes talking, demons being cast into swine which drown themselves, ‘faith can move mountains’ (literally), supernatural characters influencing human lives, etc?

Why not all of these events have been observed.

Kindly provide verifiable evidence to support the claim that the events have been observed.

Evolution has not been observed. Nor can it be observed.

Therefore, microbes do not become antibiotic resistant. Right?

The people who lived in these areas who would have known truth behind these events believed these events took place, just like the eyewitnesses said they did.

Kindly identify the eyewitnesses to virgin birth (with confirmation of virginity).

How can it be known what ‘people who lived in those areas’ believed or did not believe?

Having eyewitnesses of events that actually happen are much more convincing then, made of stories of what some people hoped happen.

Who witnessed the ‘resurrection’ happening?

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]


Years ago, a member of the now defunct Amazon Religion forum stated that he had never met anyone who truly understood the theory of evolution and rejected it. While there may exist an exception, none of the responses in this thread up to this point have convinced me that he was wrong.


I also find it interesting that so many theists responding here seem to think this is a theism versus evolution conflict. While researching some claims made by a fellow poster in this forum, I became aware of the beliefs of Asa Gray. He was a close friend of Darwin's who accepted Darwin's ideas about evolution and yet remained a devoted Christian theist. He is not alone in that view, but many posters here seem to be unaware of this fact.



Tcg

[Tcg]

Kindly identify the eyewitnesses to virgin birth (with confirmation of virginity).

Mary of course. Her tale of the angel Gabriel's visit was the confirmation I suppose.


I'd be interested in who witnessed the literal moving of mountains. Jesus promised such a possibility, but unless my memory fails me, it never took place in the Bible story.


Mountaintop removal is practiced in the Appalachians, but that is more a result of heavy equipment rather than faith.



Tcg

[Zzyzx]

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Kindly identify the eyewitnesses to virgin birth (with confirmation of virginity).

Mary of course. Her tale of the angel Gabriel's visit was the confirmation I suppose.

Do we have an account direct from Mary of the birth or the angelic visit? Or do we have a story written many years later by someone who cannot be identified with certainty by Christian scholars and theologians?

How would the storyteller know if Mary was a virgin? How would any other person (or writer) know if a woman was a virgin or not? Did she make that claim? Where are her words to that effect?

Did the writer hear birth and angel stories from Mary or from someone else or did 'he' make it up? How can we know?

[Tcg]

.

Kindly identify the eyewitnesses to virgin birth (with confirmation of virginity).

Mary of course. Her tale of the angel Gabriel's visit was the confirmation I suppose.

Do we have an account direct from Mary of the birth or the angelic visit? Or do we have a story written many years later by someone who cannot be identified with certainty by Christian scholars and theologians?

How would the storyteller know if Mary was a virgin? How would any other person (or writer) know if a woman was a virgin or not? Did she make that claim? Where are her words to that effect?

Did the writer hear birth and angel stories from Mary or from someone else or did 'he' make it up? How can we know?

My reply was simply an attempt of a bit of tongue in check humor. I have been told at times that my humor is so dry that it is undetectable from a serious response.


In spite of my failure to clarify humor from serious intent, I'm glad I attempted it given that your many pertinent questions reveal the weakness of the claims some make concerning the virgin birth.


On the other hand, my interest in literal mountain moving is serious. Has anyone truly claimed to have seen this? If so, where can we look to find evidence of mountain migration?



Tcg

[1213]

Nope. Wikipedia disagrees with you. There is no mention of mice and certainly no mention of breeding them into fish.

Allegedly the ancestors of whales were land animals and evolved as described here:
https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibra ... vograms_03

I know that whales are not fish, but if you believe that happened, why could it not happen with mice?

But don’t worry, I don’t believe it would happen in any case as I understand also well that you couldn’t breed mice into fish, or any other animal. Evolution theory, if it means any change to really different animal doesn’t happen. Small changes in attributes animal has, is not evolution, it is only small differences within the specie. If you would claim those changes could lead to different species, similarly as in the whale example, I think it is interesting baseless belief. But not new, I think it is same as believing in Mother Nature god.