Did Jesus and his followers believe in reincarnation?

[John Human]

If the quotation below is accurate, then Jesus Christ and his immediate followers lived in a culture where reincarnation was taken for granted. If so, is there any reason to doubt that reincarnation was part of the worldview of the earliest Hebrew Christians?

Reincarnation in the Old Testament
http://adishakti.org/_/reincarnation_in ... tament.htm

...Flavius Josephus, born 37 C.E., died after 93 C.E., is the most well know Jewish historian. He was a Pharisee, born Joseph ben Matthias who served as a commander in Galilee in the Jewish revolt against Rome in 66 C.E. His Jewish Antiquities, written about 93 C.E., describes the history of the Jews from the Creation onward with a particularly full account of the Maccabees and the dynasty of Herod. Reincarnation runs through his works like salt through a salt shaker. He talks of rebirth in such a matter-of-fact way that one must assume it was an accepted way of thinking which was so common at the time that it did not merit any further explanation. ... [snip]

There are three learned Jewish philosophers appearing just before or at the time of Christ who taught the doctrine of reincarnation. They were Philo Judaeus, aka Philo of Alexandria, C. 20 B.C.E.- C. 50 C.E., who was the greatest Jewish philosopher and theologian of the Greco-Roman period whose writings have survived; the Jewish sage Hillel, the great Chaldean teacher who was the leading Pharisee in Jerusalem during the late 1st century B.C.E. and early years of the present era; and the great Jewish sage Jehoshuah ben Pandira. Today these three men are household names in Judaism and garner enormous respect from all orthodox Jews regardless of sect. They are prominent fixtures in Jewish religious history and they all taught the doctrine of reincarnation.

[William]

Are the doctrines of Reincarnation able to be dovetailed with the doctrines of Ancient Hebrews?

I would be asking that question in order to start the ball rolling on why a GOD would use reincarnation as a device. What purpose would that achieve?

From what I understand of reincarnation, it involves the original Soul Experience that the Spirit goes through in Its first encounter with Being Human, to be hidden from the knowledge of that Spirit if it goes back for a second time.

This process could take in many human life experiences, each one adding to the Soul as data of experience and each one hidden from the Spirit who undergoes each of the human life experiences it has.

At some point in this process, the Spirit can then be permitted to overview all the Souls data of experience from every human experience that Spirit had and therein - perhaps be enabled to learn something from that data, about itself.

Once that lesson has been achieved through that process, the Spirit can graduate to a new level.

Is that compatible with the things Jesus is attributed to having taught? If so, which verses?

[bjs]

[Replying to John Human]

I have never heard anyone describe Josephus this way. I admit that is has been many years since I read Antiquities but I don’t recall it ever even occurring to me to that Josephus believed in reincarnation, much less that it “runs through his works like salt through a salt shaker.�

I would be curious if anyone could support the claim that Josephus believed in reincarnation, but on the surface it seems that the article is not a remotely accurate description of Josephus’s writings.

[ttruscott]

Reincarnation in the Old Testament
http://adishakti.org/_/reincarnation_in ... tament.htm

These quotes seem to rest upon a Muslim site pro-reincarnation...

[marco]

If the quotation below is accurate, then Jesus Christ and his immediate followers lived in a culture where reincarnation was taken for granted.

Jesus was influenced by Judaism. The Greeks and Romans had views on reincarnation. Hadrian writes about his soul passing on after his death into someone else. Pythagoras is associated with the transmigration of souls into animals. Jesus seems to have been insulated from alien ideas, though there are theories he extracted some beliefs from Indian cultures. There is nothing in anything he says that touches on reincarnation, as we understand it.

[John Human]

If the quotation below is accurate, then Jesus Christ and his immediate followers lived in a culture where reincarnation was taken for granted.

Jesus was influenced by Judaism. The Greeks and Romans had views on reincarnation. Hadrian writes about his soul passing on after his death into someone else. Pythagoras is associated with the transmigration of souls into animals.

Okay, lots to sort through here, and this is new ground for me, so I don't know how far this argument will go, but let me try it out and see...

My reply, PART 1

Jesus was influenced by Judaism.

Here's a quote from a Jewish website:

https://ohr.edu/530
Reincarnation is one of the teachings of the Oral Torah. In the Written Torah there are no explicit references to reincarnation, but there are hints. ... [snip] ... Rabbi Yitzchak Luria, (the Arizal) writes that Moshe was a reincarnation of Adam’s third son, Sheit (Seth), and that Sheit was a reincarnation of Hevel (Abel). (The mem of Moshe’s name stands for Moshe, the shin stands for Sheit, and the heh for Hevel). The great mishnaic Sage Shamai was a reincarnation of Moshe, and Hillel was a reincarnation of Aharon.

[1213]

If the quotation below is accurate, then Jesus Christ and his immediate followers lived in a culture where reincarnation was taken for granted. If so, is there any reason to doubt that reincarnation was part of the worldview of the earliest Hebrew Christians?..

Bible teaches that after this world time, some people are raised from the death. I think that is not same as reincarnation, because reincarnation usually means that person is born to this life in new form.

[John Human]

PART 2 of my reply

Jesus was influenced by Judaism.

The kabbalah is an enduring part of Jewish culture, and it would appear to embrace reincarnation:

https://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article ... r-341.htm
Abel is [drawn from] the right shoulder of Adam, which is the level of itra d’chesed [the crown of chesed] - which remained in Zeir Anpin. So we find that he is from the in the secret of da’at, which, as we have explained before resolves between chochmah and bina. Therefore, da’at itself has to incorporate the three levels of chochmah, bina, and da’at.

At first, Moses was Abel, who was the son of Adam. Later, he reincarnated into Seth, then Noah, and after that, into Shem, Noah's son. This is the secret of, "You have said, ‘I shall know you by shem [literally meaning 'name']’" (Ex. 33:12) - an allusion to the reincarnation into Shem. "And you found favor ChN/cheit-nun [favor] in My eyes" hints at the reincarnation into Noah, the father, since Noah also contains the letters ChN/cheit-nun. In the secret of, "Noah found favor CN/cheit-nun [favor](Gen. 6:8)

I mentioned elsewhere that these gilgulim are in the secret of NR"N, and therefore, you need not be surprised about how Noah and Shem could live at the same time if they are from the same level since they can take different soul-sections from one person who had them altogether.

The part about Adam's shoulder suggests an esoteric meaning for the story of Eve being created from Adam's rib. Perhaps it is impossible for evangelical Christians to interpret certain passages from the Old Testament without being familiar with traditional Jewish thought.

The wikipedia page on the Kabbalah is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah

[John Human]

I see that my posts are being blocked, or at least severely restricted, or maybe there's a glitch in the system. When I try to edit Post #8, the full text of the post appears, but it is not showing publicly. However, so far at least, I can edit this post (#9). This post and its changes appear publicly, as one would expect.

[Zzyzx]

.
[Replying to post 9 by John Human]

Moderator Clarification

There is a time limit (of two hours if I remember correctly) for editing posts.

Posts are only blocked for those who are banished or on suspension.


______________

Moderator clarifications do not count as a strike against any posters. They serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received and/or are given at the discretion of a moderator when he or she feels a clarification of the rules is required.