Is God a killer?

[marco]

If creation reflects, in some way, the great mind of God, then what can we say of the spider gifted with a talent to paralyse prey or the tiger endowed with killer force or the herbivore hippo that kills in fits of irritation or the venomous snake whose kiss is fatal?


What mind conceived such dark horrors? Where was the pity for the billion daily victims in the world he has made for his amusement? Surely there is displayed more horror, more brutality than love when even a simple plant can close its jaws on life and render it null.


So should we deduce God is more killer than kind?

[Clownboat]

Yet - the con-artist is also the artwork of the artist...so if the artist created the con-artist, and if also, blame must be allocated,

Weird analogy but the artist did not create any con-artist but created everybody able to choose to follow the art of love or the con-art of evil by their free will.

They needed a free will because HE created us to enter the full and holy communion of the heavenly marriage with HIM and no marriage forced upon a person has the full communion of a heavenly marriage; it is base and earthly.

Therefore HE gave everyone created in HIS image a free will and let us all choose, knowing that evil might be created against HIS will but allowing it so HE could find everyone who wanted what HE was offering strong enough to put their faith in HIS claims without proof, wanting it strongly enough to hold their need for proof in abeyance.

PEOPLE chose to be artists in HIS order and PEOPLE chose to be con-artists against HIM. HE needed their free will even though it allowed some to stray.

Everything you just stated is false.
I'm using exactly as much evidence for my statement as you did for all of yours above, so both should have the same level of credibility.

What is your evidence for this being a prison planet? What about a heavenly marriage? To me, it seems like you noticed the inherent problems with Christianity in general, so you took to this prison planet idea to circumvent them. Perhaps I'm wrong about that?

Empty statements that seem to be imagination just are not convincing, much like how I assume my statements about your falsehoods have not resonated with you.

[William]

[Replying to post 41 by Clownboat]

Therefore HE gave everyone created in HIS image a free will and let us all choose, knowing that evil might be created against HIS will but allowing it so HE could find everyone who wanted what HE was offering strong enough to put their faith in HIS claims without proof, wanting it strongly enough to hold their need for proof in abeyance.

Weird...your reasoning above is classic con-artist methodology whereby the con-artist includes truth, but uses it to set up an illusion of everything being above board as far as the intended victim would be concerned.

The con-artist builds up confidence in his victim, and relies heavily on the victim forming trust in him by enticing certain emotions from the intended victims weaknesses - those being;

Credulity.
Naïveté.
Compassion.
Vanity.
Irresponsibility.
Greed.

Important to the success of any confidence trick, is the aspect of FAITH of the intended victim in the confidence artist.

With this in mind, now read what you wrote in support of your idea of GOD.

"...so HE could find everyone who wanted what HE was offering strong enough to put their faith in HIS claims without proof, wanting it strongly enough to hold their need for proof in abeyance."

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 41 by Clownboat]

Therefore HE gave everyone created in HIS image a free will and let us all choose, knowing that evil might be created against HIS will but allowing it so HE could find everyone who wanted what HE was offering strong enough to put their faith in HIS claims without proof, wanting it strongly enough to hold their need for proof in abeyance.

Weird...your reasoning above is classic con-artist methodology whereby the con-artist includes truth, but uses it to set up an illusion of everything being above board as far as the intended victim would be concerned.

The con-artist builds up confidence in his victim, and relies heavily on the victim forming trust in him by enticing certain emotions from the intended victims weaknesses - those being;

Credulity.
Naïveté.
Compassion.
Vanity.
Irresponsibility.
Greed.

Important to the success of any confidence trick, is the aspect of FAITH of the intended victim in the confidence artist.

With this in mind, now read what you wrote in support of your idea of GOD.

"...so HE could find everyone who wanted what HE was offering strong enough to put their faith in HIS claims without proof, wanting it strongly enough to hold their need for proof in abeyance."

For clarification, what was quoted belongs to ttruscott and not Clownboat...

[ttruscott]

Everything you just stated is false.
I'm using exactly as much evidence for my statement as you did for all of yours above, so both should have the same level of credibility.

What is your evidence for this being a prison planet?

These verses do nicely:
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to tartarus, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire has been kindled by My wrath, one that burns to the realm of Sheol below. It will devour the earth and its harvests and set afire the foundations of the mountains.

I'm assuming I do not need to 'prove' elect sinners are also sent into the world with the demonic host (Matt 13:36-39) nor that tartarus is considered to be in the depths of Sheol and that Sheol is considered to be in the depths of the earth...?

What about a heavenly marriage?

Revelation 19:6-9
Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out,
“Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God
the Almighty reigns.
7 Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;

As this marriage is the culmination of the story of the redemption and sanctification of HIS chosen people and the eradication of all evil, I contend that this MARRIAGE was HIS perfect purpose for Creation that was derailed by the choice of some to be evil.

To me, it seems like you noticed the inherent problems with Christianity in general, so you took to this prison planet idea to circumvent them. Perhaps I'm wrong about that?

Circumvent is your attitude; answer and explain is mine.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 42 by William]

Ummm, isn't that MY quote?

[William]

[Replying to post 43 by Clownboat]

For clarification, what was quoted belongs to ttruscott and not Clownboat...

Sorry about that CB - not sure entirely what went down with that - I certainly knew I was replying to what ttruscott had written.

[William]

[Replying to post 40 by ttruscott]

Therefore HE gave everyone created in HIS image a free will and let us all choose, knowing that evil might be created against HIS will but allowing it so HE could find everyone who wanted what HE was offering strong enough to put their faith in HIS claims without proof, wanting it strongly enough to hold their need for proof in abeyance.

Weird...your reasoning above is classic con-artist methodology whereby the con-artist includes truth, but uses it to set up an illusion of everything being above board as far as the intended victim would be concerned.

The con-artist builds up confidence in his victim, and relies heavily on the victim forming trust in him by enticing certain emotions from the intended victims weaknesses - those being;

Credulity.
Naïveté.
Compassion.
Vanity.
Irresponsibility.
Greed.

Important to the success of any confidence trick, is the aspect of FAITH of the intended victim in the confidence artist.

With this in mind, now read what you wrote in support of your idea of GOD.

"...so HE could find everyone who wanted what HE was offering strong enough to put their faith in HIS claims without proof, wanting it strongly enough to hold their need for proof in abeyance."

[Clownboat]

Everything you just stated is false.
I'm using exactly as much evidence for my statement as you did for all of yours above, so both should have the same level of credibility.

What is your evidence for this being a prison planet?

These verses do nicely:
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to tartarus, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Deuteronomy 32:22 For a fire has been kindled by My wrath, one that burns to the realm of Sheol below. It will devour the earth and its harvests and set afire the foundations of the mountains.

I'm assuming I do not need to 'prove' elect sinners are also sent into the world with the demonic host (Matt 13:36-39) nor that tartarus is considered to be in the depths of Sheol and that Sheol is considered to be in the depths of the earth...?

What about a heavenly marriage?

Revelation 19:6-9
Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out,
“Hallelujah!
For the Lord our God
the Almighty reigns.
7 Let us rejoice and exult
and give him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and his Bride has made herself ready;

As this marriage is the culmination of the story of the redemption and sanctification of HIS chosen people and the eradication of all evil, I contend that this MARRIAGE was HIS perfect purpose for Creation that was derailed by the choice of some to be evil.

To me, it seems like you noticed the inherent problems with Christianity in general, so you took to this prison planet idea to circumvent them. Perhaps I'm wrong about that?

Circumvent is your attitude; answer and explain is mine.

We all know this idea was invented out of what some could construe from the Bible.
I was looking for anything in the real world that would evidence your claims.

Your holy book has no authority in are reality it would seem, therefore I cannot consider it to be evidence.

Prison planet... Heavenly marriage... you don't say...

Bottom line, if religious promotional material is evidence, then Mohammed flew up to heaven on a winged horse and Allah is the one true god. You have done no better with your claims then a Muslim does with theirs and like you reject the Muslim, I must reject your claims until actual evidence is presented.

Reality is, that the Bible says all sorts of things, many quite strange. Oh how to make sense of it all...
An eunuch, whose testicles are broken or cut away, or yard cut off, shall not enter into the church of the Lord.—Deuteronomy 23:1

[marco]

Reality is, that the Bible says all sorts of things, many quite strange.

They say if you want to find justification for anything, search the Bible. Henry viii needed to get rid of his first wife when he lusted for young Anne Boleyn and he found an excuse in Leviticus, where advice is given about marrying one's brother's ex-wife. James 1 needed to know that witchcraft was bad and he solved his problem with the phrase: "Suffer not a witch to live." There may be bits of the Bible that inspire the noblest actions, but murder, destruction, annihilation, torment, torture .. tend to hide these gems. The Biblical God is more killer than kind.

[ttruscott]

The Biblical God is more killer than kind.

In light of the Christian reality
- that all people are born as sinners, ie, only sinners are born on earth and
- that all sinners are in fact under the penalty of death for their sins and
- that all die,

does answer your question with a qualified: yes indeed GOD causes the death of every sinner born on earth BUT the pejorative killer is not properly used to describe a righteous judge who gives the lawful order of execution for a capital crime nor does it accrue to the executioner who carries out the lawful order.

Your continued skill at re-framing Christian beliefs as a strawman pejorative is noted....