Christianity Defined

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Jagella
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Christianity Defined

Post #1

Post by Jagella »

I found an “internet meme� courtesy of Richard Carrier that provided what might be described as a “clothes-off� definition of Christianity. My paraphrase of that definition is the following:
  • Christianity - the belief that some cosmic Jewish Guy-in-the-Sky who got a virgin pregnant with himself without a penis can make you live forever if you pretend to eat his flesh and drink his blood and also tell him telepathically that you accept him as your master to be obeyed at all cost even to the point of death the purpose of doing so being to have him remove an independent, self-sufficient attitude from your mind that all people are born with and need to survive because a woman born as a rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat some fruit growing on a tree that magically gave her the ability to understand what is good and what is evil.
(Note that the vast majority of scholars are completely convinced that the Jewish Guy urging symbolic cannibalism and vampirism existed although many of them do not insist that his being in the sky and getting a virgin pregnant with himself is necessarily historical.)

Question for Debate: Can anybody here point out any inaccuracies in this definition?

Yes, it's an absurd idea, but it is what Christians believe!

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Post #11

Post by William »

JehovahsWitness: Christianity is faith that follows the example of Jesus Christ as presented in the bible canon.
All true Christians will, I believe find this definition acceptable and that's good enough for me.


Christian Panentheist: I think rather the truth of the matter is that all people who think that they are true Christians will find this definition acceptable.
Others like my self understand that Christianity as a faith that follows the example of Jesus Christ as presented in the bible canon, is entry level at best. Much of what Jesus did is hidden from their knowledge as they believe that the bible stories cover everything. It suits the type of personality which isn't overly interested in delving into the deep...but who still like to assume that they are true/following truth.

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Post #12

Post by bjs »

Zzyzx wrote: .
Perhaps a brave Apologist will step forward and offer a definition of Christianity that is acceptable to Christendom?
That may be more than what can be covered in this format. Richard Baxter wrote a great deal on the topic. C.S. Lewis’ most influential work, Mere Christianity, covers that topic.

I understand that on this site we define a Christians as someone who says they are a Christian.

As always, I can speak only for orthodox Christianity (Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant Christians). In terms of beliefs, an orthodox Christians is someone who believes the following:

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, Our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.

And:

I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo

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Re: Christianity Defined

Post #13

Post by Mithrae »

Jagella wrote:
Mithrae wrote:It's about as intelligent as Creationists who 'define' mainstream science along the lines of "Nothing exploded and because there was a really, really lot of it for a really, really long time it just randomly happened to produce complex life and apes gave birth to people with brains smart enough to persuade themselves this all makes sense." Personally I would try to aim a little higher than that, but perhaps Carrier is proud of measuring up to his intellectual equals :lol:
So your response is that the definition of Christianity in the OP is stupid. I agree completely...
Not quite what I said, but if you think that you posted a stupid 'definition' that's on you I guess.

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Post #14

Post by rikuoamero »

bjs wrote:
Zzyzx wrote: .
Perhaps a brave Apologist will step forward and offer a definition of Christianity that is acceptable to Christendom?
That may be more than what can be covered in this format. Richard Baxter wrote a great deal on the topic. C.S. Lewis’ most influential work, Mere Christianity, covers that topic.

I understand that on this site we define a Christians as someone who says they are a Christian.

As always, I can speak only for orthodox Christianity (Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant Christians). In terms of beliefs, an orthodox Christians is someone who believes the following:

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth. I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, Our Lord. He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended to the dead. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.

And:

I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets. I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church. I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.
Out of sheer curiosity why this post the way it was written? You repeat yourself in the two paragraphs.
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Post #15

Post by Mithrae »

rikuoamero wrote: Out of sheer curiosity why this post the way it was written? You repeat yourself in the two paragraphs.
The first is the Nicene Creed, and I'm guessing the second would be the Apostle's Creed.

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Post #16

Post by tam »

Peace to you!

Mithrae wrote:
rikuoamero wrote: Out of sheer curiosity why this post the way it was written? You repeat yourself in the two paragraphs.
The first is the Nicene Creed, and I'm guessing the second would be the Apostle's Creed.

The other way around, I believe. The first is the apostles creed. The nicene creed adds to the apostles creed, and so the nicene creed would be the longer of the two. Also, the apostles creed does not personify the holy spirit.


I would have to reject the nicene creed (I think many would argue over it, some of them also rejecting it). But I think most would be fine with the apostles creed.




Peace to you!
Last edited by tam on Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Christianity Defined

Post #17

Post by Elijah John »

Jagella wrote:I agree completely and wonder how any thinking person can believe in the following Christian doctrines and practices included in that definition:
â–º Prayer
â–º Unquestioning Obedience to Divine Commands
â–º Repentance
Assuming there is a God, why would it be irrational to pray, to obey and to repent if we sin against God or neighbor? All thoughtful Theists do these things. Christian, Muslim, Jew etc.

Also, someone mentioned they have not encountered any non-orthodox Christians. There are definitely a few, right here on this site. ;)
My theological positions:

-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.

I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.

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Jagella
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Re: Christianity Defined

Post #18

Post by Jagella »

Elijah John wrote:Assuming there is a God
You get into trouble here right away. The "Jewish Guy-in-the-Sky" is a silly belief akin to children believing they have invisible friends. There's nothing sensible about such a belief.
...why would it be irrational to pray...
Telepathy is a superstition that has never been shown to work. When you pray you are talking to the air. Prayer doesn't work, and it's irrational to keep doing something that fails so often.
...to obey...
I think it's reasonable to obey that which is in our best interests. Christians getting themselves killed or killing others in obedience to what a ghost has presumably dictated is utter foolishness.
...and to repent if we sin against God or neighbor?
Here you're making some sense. While it's illogical to believe you can do anything to harm an all-mighty god, you can indeed hurt other people. But you don't need religion to keep from needlessly hurting others. Just use your head and do no harm.
All thoughtful Theists do these things. Christian, Muslim, Jew etc.
I just wish they would think about how little sense it makes to hold religious beliefs. But seriously, people are good at thinking of reasons to believe what they want to.
Also, someone mentioned they have not encountered any non-orthodox Christians. There are definitely a few, right here on this site. ;)
I mentioned that I cannot recall ever meeting a Christian who said her beliefs are not proper. It's always the other Christians who have it wrong. If you can see how wrong they get it, then why can't you see how wrong you are?

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Re: Christianity Defined

Post #19

Post by 1213 »

Jagella wrote: ...
  • Christianity - the belief that some cosmic Jewish Guy-in-the-Sky who got a virgin pregnant with himself without a penis can make you live forever if you pretend to eat his flesh and drink his blood and also tell him telepathically that you accept him as your master to be obeyed at all cost even to the point of death the purpose of doing so being to have him remove an independent, self-sufficient attitude from your mind that all people are born with and need to survive because a woman born as a rib was convinced by a talking snake to eat some fruit growing on a tree that magically gave her the ability to understand what is good and what is evil.
...Question for Debate: Can anybody here point out any inaccuracies in this definition?...
Maybe some people actually believe that. I think that shows well that people don’t know what the Bible teaches.
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Re: Christianity Defined

Post #20

Post by Jagella »

1213 wrote:Maybe some people actually believe that. I think that shows well that people don’t know what the Bible teaches.
Hmmm. Who aside from Christians are going to agree with your denial? I wonder what people will conclude when they read these denials?

In any case, if the Bible doesn't "teach" what I posted in the OP, then it tells us that God used his penis to impregnate Mary, and she was no virgin when she gave birth to Jesus. In addition your Bible tells you that we cannot live forever, you can't use prayer to petition God, there was no Jewish man named Jesus, and there was no "fall" because no snake ever convinced Eve to eat fruit.

So 1213, it looks like we agree on a lot more than I thought we did!

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