Jesus IS a sinner. Therefore an unacceptable sacrifice

[Avoice]

Jesus is a sinner. By his actions he proves this.

In the story of the adultress woman caught in the very act.
The law requires her to be stoned. Jesus faces a problem here. He has to somehow save her from being punished for her sin yet not break the law.

Jesus tells those standing by that whoever has not sinned cast the first stone. One by one they all walked away not throwing a stone at her. The law states no such stipulation but ets just do it Jesus' way. When it says Jesus and the woman were left standing alone. Now its jesus' turn.

If Jesus is sinless he is to throw a stone
If Jesus is a sinner he wont throw a stone.

What does Jesus say? NEITHER do I condemn you. He tells her to go and to not do it again.

He does not throw a stone. If he were sinless he was to stone her. He said so.

If indeed he were sinless up until this time he became a sinner by not keeping the law by throwing a stone at her.

Throwing a stone or not throwing a stone either proves he is a sinner or makes him a sinner.
And being a sinner would be an unacceptable blemish. Unfit for sacrifice. Thats if God was even into throwing babies in fires, virgins in volcanos or nailing a man onto a tree/ cross in the first place. At a place called Golgotha....the skull? Unacceptable location even.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 1 by Avoice]

Actually, Jesus prevented misjustice. The law sates this:

• Leviticus 20:10 If a man commits adultery with another mans wife"with the wife of his neighbor"both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death."

The men who concocted this set up tried to trick Jesus into disobeying the law by stoning only the woman. He refused to commit the sin they hoped he would and revealed them as the hypocrites they were.



Tcg

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 2 by Tcg]

It doesn't say they are to be stoned together. After she was stoned they should have stoned him. Maybe he was stoned already?

The truth stands. Thus proves Jesus is a sinner. It makes no difference if anyone was trying to trick jesus. The law stands. Jesus did not uphold the law therefore he sinned.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 2 by Tcg]

It doesn't say they are to be stoned together. After she was stoned they should have stoned him. Maybe he was stoned already?

The truth stands. Thus proves Jesus is a sinner. It makes no difference if anyone was trying to trick jesus. The law stands. Jesus did not uphold the law therefore he sinned.

If it is true that she should have been stoned, it is the Jewish religious leaders who sinned. They are the ones who refused to follow the law. They failed to present the man for stoning and failed to stone the woman they claimed was guilty.


If they were sure she deserved to be stoned according to their law, there would be no reason to not do so themselves. There would be no reason to even ask Jesus' opinion and certainly no reason to allow him to convince them to disobey their God, that is if they were telling the truth.



Tcg

[William]

Avoice:The truth stands. Thus proves Jesus is a sinner. It makes no difference if anyone was trying to trick Jesus. The law stands. Jesus did not uphold the law therefore he sinned.

William: You appear to be arguing that Jehovah's law could be used to trick someone. That seems iffy. Maybe it was never Jehovah's Law in the first place, and that was among the points Jesus was showing example of.
You appear to forget too, that Jesus claimed he was given all authority, and was showing this is his dealing with issues of Law. If he felt that this law could be ignored, then he most likely realized that it was not sourced in The Father.
One has to remember that Jesus was countering a trickiness which was well established through the bastardized religions claiming authority from Jehovah.
In the end, since he is the judge, not you or I or anyone else, any such accusations one has to hurl his way can be attempted when the opportunity finally affords itself for one to do so.
I'm inclined to think that announcing the accusation on a public debate forum, is a bit premature and gives the reader no particular bearing on the matter - except maybe to tempt the reader to side with the accuser?

[Tcg]

He does not throw a stone. If he were sinless he was to stone her. He said so.

That is not what he said. Here is what he said:

• John 8:7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.
  
  Bolding mine.

He challenged the corrupt religious leaders to throw the first stone. He did not include himself in this statement. Knowing that they'd been caught in a false setup, they all were guilty of sin and all walked away. Had it been an honest accusation, they'd be required by law to stone her. They knew it wasn't and therefore left and by doing so admitted their guilt.



Tcg

[Danmark]

Jesus is a sinner. By his actions he proves this.

In the story of the adultress woman caught in the very act.
The law requires her to be stoned. Jesus faces a problem here. He has to somehow save her from being punished for her sin yet not break the law.

Jesus tells those standing by that whoever has not sinned cast the first stone. One by one they all walked away not throwing a stone at her.

Your argument is mathematically logical; however it completely misunderstands the essence of Jesus, his sense of the poetic, irony and his teaching method.

Your analysis is a perfect example of straining at gnats while swallowing a camel. It also misunderstands a legal principle that operates even today. That concept is called in pari delicto or 'the clean hands doctrine,' which says that when you accuse someone of bad dealing with you, you should not have participated in the evil you accuse your adversary of.

I don't believe Jesus was divine or perfect, but he was a great teacher. Too bad you have missed completely the essence of the man, and the law.

[Elijah John]

Though righteous and devoted to YHVH, Jesus was not perfect. He went to John for a "baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins". And he seemed to advocate the violation of the commandment to honor one's parents. "Let the dead bury their own dead", putting himself above the mitzvot to do right for one's parents.

And as the OP indicates, human sacrifice was prohibited anyway. Besides, if Jesus considered himself a sacrifice for sin, why didn't he go to the Temple priests and present himself as such? Of course, he would have been rejected to say the least.

A Roman cross was an instrument of execution, not an altar to any God. Jesus execution was a martyrdom, at best. To consider it an atonement is a theological interpretation proffered by the likes of Paul, (Saul of Tarsus), and Paul's disciples. The doctrine of Jesus atonement is an after-the-fact theological interpretation, and in effect, revisionism.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 4 by Tcg]

If you believe that then jesus should have told them what you told me.

If, like you say the leaders sinned by asking jesus it still doesnt change the fact that jesus sinned by letting her walk away. And if they asked jesus his advise what of it.

And jesus includes himself. He told the woman " NEITHER do I accuse you" And so he includes himself as one of the men to be in judgement.

Now if you want to use the word 'tricked' thats fine. They wanted to see if he would uphold rhe law. Im glad they did that. He failed.

Jesus sinned.

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 4 by Tcg]

If you believe that then jesus should have told them what you told me.

If, like you say the leaders sinned by asking jesus it still doesnt change the fact that jesus sinned by letting her walk away. And if they asked jesus his advise what of it.

And jesus includes himself. He told the woman " NEITHER do I accuse you" And so he includes himself as one of the men to be in judgement.

Now if you want to use the word 'tricked' thats fine. They wanted to see if he would uphold rhe law. Im glad they did that. He failed.

Jesus sinned.

You've presented nothing new to support your failed claim. These corrupt religious leaders attempted to trick Jesus into murdering an innocent woman. If she had been guilty, they would have stoned her and the man they failed to present.


Jesus made the right call and in doing so prevented a clear injustice.



Tcg