What is the Biblical view of hell?

[otseng]

The concept of Hell is one of the many unmarketable, embarrassingly unbelievable religious concepts that has been recently swept under the altar in the severely diluted quasi-belief system that passes for Christianity in certain circles.

In fact, I think this is why Christianity invented eternal punishment in hell. They started to realize that just plain dying wouldn't be compelling. So instead they invented the concept of "Everlasting Punishment" for those who refuse to comply.

Questions for debate:
What is the Biblical view of hell?
What concepts do we have of hell that are not in the Bible?

[JehovahsWitness]

On some occasions we are talking about the spirit part of man and on others we are talking about a living creature, with shades of related meaning.

Okay except that SPIRIT (ruʹach) and SOUL (nephesh) are different words in scripture. What in your opinion is the difference between the usage ?





“Soul� and “Spirit�​—What Do These Terms Really Mean?
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/book ... t-meaning/

[marco]

Okay except that SPIRIT (ruʹach) and SOUL (nephesh) are different words in scripture. What in your opinion is the difference between the usage ?

Meanings overlap. Matthew 16: 26 "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" speaks to me of a division between body and soul, the soul part being the more precious. As I pointed out the words have a close association with the Latin anima, which certainly is the soul, but a dozen other things as well.

The analogy in the piece to which you referred us - life force and electricity that powers the radio - is as good as Patrick's analogy of shamrock and Trinity. We don't switch life off and then on again; the force behind life is the soul, whether it be immortal or not, and the soul is a survivor or so it has been viewed by countless peoples, and it is this idea that permeates Christian thought. It may be in possession of potentially eternal life, but that life may be forfeited, as Christ suggests, by some serious sin.


When Jesus ruefully comments on the division of body and soul he says the spirit is willing but the flesh weak. Here is an overlap. The spiritual part of man looks towards heaven, while the base flesh stays grounded.


Doing a word count to see various usages for nephesh and ruach is a poor basis on which to contradict the theology of the soul, as Jesus seems to have viwed it. It has the appearance of desperation.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 382 by marco]

It's not clear what you're saying, they are two different words presumably there is a difference in meaning, if so what, from use in scripture * would that be?... Or are you suggesting they are absolute synonyms and they are used interchangeably? We've established that NEPHESH is applied to animals and humans and is spoken of as being the physical living breathing/person or animal (or figuratively, the life of that physical being ) .... What about RUACH? Is SPIRIT ever spoken of as eating or reproducing on earth, or having blood? In short is the SPIRIT ever spoken of being the physical person/the animal "creature" (that eats, bleeds, dies...)?


* from use not word count (The number of times a word is used is more or less irrelevant, but when the term is unique thus limiting what we can gather from comparisons).

[RightReason]

[Replying to William]

William: If the Disciples had shared those secrets with the Church, then the Church would be able to impart them to the Church Children, who would then be able to impart them to the world.

RightReason: That is exactly what the Church does on a daily basis.

William: If that were so, then the world would not be in ignorance about The Knowledge of The Secrets of The Kingdom of Heaven.

First, I don’t agree with you that the world is ignorant about knowledge of the kingdom. I would Christendom knows a good amount. Second, I would say of course we don’t know everything, but God has revealed to us what He feels it is important for us to know.

RightReason: In Scripture we read how the crowds refused to go on with Jesus when He told them they would need to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, but the disciples remained with Him


William: I recall that Jesus was not in public when he instituted this symbolic rite.
Can you cite the script to support your claim?

John 6:51-68

51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.�

52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?�

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. 57


60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?�

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you? 62

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

67 “You do not want to leave too, do you?� Jesus asked the Twelve.

68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God.�

RightReason: And what did they do? They went on to teach the beautiful secret of the True Presence, in the Holy Eucharist, which the Church celebrates as a perpetual offering every day. What bigger secret is there than unless we eat His Body and drink His Blood we have no life in us.

William: If this is an example of The Knowledge of The Secrets of The Kingdom of Heaven, it falls short of the mark.
Symbolically it is to remind the Disciples of sacrifice for a greater cause and does not reveal the existence of the Metaphysical to those who partake. It does not of itself allow the partaker how to experience the Kingdom of Heaven.

We Catholics believe that is exactly what it does. We literally receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. THAT is a pretty awesome experience of the kingdom of heaven.

RightReason: But if we do, He will raise us up on the last day.

William: Again, this is belief which is set to consolidate the lost sheep and prepare them for the Safe Place I mentioned - something you have yet to address.

"What these things do is allow for a place to be created in The Kingdom of Heaven whereby the Shepard has made the sheep safe."

Google Eucharistic Miracles to understand what is actually happening when we partake of the Body and Blood. It isn’t a symbolic “preparing�. What occurs is a literal transformation. An awesome mystery! How God is able to do this, we cannot fathom, but He has revealed to us that in fact the bread and wine do become His Body and Blood. So, as you can see He does reveal this awesome mystery.

RightReason: The Church beautifully teaches the awesome mystery of the Trinity.

William: It teaches such AS a mystery, which is hardly revealing said Mystery.

Like I said, we can’t expect to understand all the mysteries of the supernatural, but they are revealed to us.

RightReason: I’d consider that a pretty amazing secret.


William: No doubt you do. But a secret is still a secret until it is revealed.

Something (a secret) can be true/real and revealed and yet remain a mystery because well, it’s a mystery. Even in heaven we may not fully understand how God is able to do what He does. He’s God for crying out loud. He’s a mystery, and yet He is continually revealing Himself to us.

RightReason: Gosh, one of the most beautiful, wise, and wondrous secrets of the kingdom is the Church’s teaching on contraception.

William: It appears you have wandered into expression idolizing the Church rather than making any actual argument against my own.
"Contraception" has what to do with The Knowledge of The Secrets of The Kingdom of Heaven? It is a subject to do with The Kingdom of Earth - The Physical Universe.

Oooh . . . if that is what you think then it seems like you do not understand it is in fact a mystery. God’s gift of love, sex, marital union, procreation, the gift of life, are not simply physical gifts. For example, the marital union is an inseparable bond that once God brings together man cannot separate. That is not simply a symbolic statement. It is a fact, hence a mystery.

RightReason: I could go on and on and talk about the secret of the assumption of our Blessed Mother that the Church reveals to her children. So, no idea what you are talking about when you say God’s Church does not reveal the secrets of the kingdom of God.

William: I agree with your last sentence, and have explained to the reader exactly WHY that is the case. The Church was not given The Knowledge of The Secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven, so it stands to reason that her Children would also have no idea.

Here was today’s reading at mass. I believe it completely contradicts your statement. I also believe it is in your Bible too . . .


Paul’s Labor for the Church

24 Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. 25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
28 He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ. -Collossians 1:24-28


I’m really unclear how a person could read that passage and claim the Church was not entrusted to reveal the mysteries of the kingdom to God’s people. And like above how you are completely unfamiliar with the crowds leaving over Jesus’ words in John 6:50. Are we reading the same Bible?


What I think people often do is start with a philosophy or invented theology and then go back and try to extract verses they think they can use to support their view. Unfortunately, reading as a whole is important, as well as recognizing we are always to make sure our interpretation does not contradict Christ’s Church’s interpretation.

Jesus understood that most would choose not to, so he set up a way in which he could make the Children safe in the Kingdom of Heaven, by providing them that safe place through their beliefs, be they Catholic beliefs or any other belief of organised religion

Such a reduction of Christ’s Church, His bride. Jesus doesn’t do secondary. Everything He does for a purpose. I think you aren’t fully getting His Church. Unfortunately, Scripture itself tells us the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. They don’t refer to the Church as a safe place – those are your words.

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 380 by Checkpoint]

No, Christ gave us the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth. John 14:17; 16:13.

But that is an incomplete response. Does Scripture tell us He established a church? And does Scripture tell us Jesus said to Peter, “I give you the keys to the kingdom�. “He who hears you, hears me and he who rejects you, rejects me�?


And in fact was a church indeed formed? And didn’t Scripture itself tell us people took their matters to the church when differences arose? In fact we hear if people didn’t listen to the church they should be considered anathema?


I actually could go on and on here, What you are doing is taking one verse and using it to explain/rationalize a theological position you have taken (I’m guessing your personal theology is that we are all our own interpreters and need only be open to the Holy Spirit and that Jesus never intended one, Holy, authoritative, Apostolic church), but it is a position that is not supported in Scripture. In fact, when the bible is read as a whole we see that Jesus did establish His Church, did give her authority, did expect people to listen to her, and did promise to remain with her. And like I said, then we see from Scripture itself that that is exactly what the first Christians did. So, once again history and public revelation from God shows us these things.

[marco]

[Replying to post 382 by marco]

It's not clear what you're saying, they are two different words presumably there is a difference in meaning, if so what, from use in scripture * would that be?... Or are you suggesting they are absolute synonyms and they are used interchangeably?

I honestly don't see what further clarfication you need. Of course they are not synonyms: I said the meanings overlap, and they overlap not in the sense of "soul" being a living creature, but in the life sense, the abstract sense, the sense that relates to something non-corporeal.

Consequently much of Christianity sees the soul as something that survives the body; this entity seems sinilar to the spirit, if we talk of the spirit departing the body.
Basically you have come to a conclusion at variance with what most Christians believe, but all parties draw their conclusions from their reading of Scripture. I believe Jesus did refer to souls as the worthy part of man when he said it was better to suffer death than the loss of one's soul. If we think soul is somehow similar to death, or we think soul is the electrical force that generates legs and arms, then what Christ said makes little sense.

[RightReason]

[Replying to William]

The Church was not given The Knowledge of The Secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven, so it stands to reason that her Children would also have no idea.

I wanted to say a little more about Christ and His Church revealing the mysteries of the kingdom of God to us. As I posted from Colossians above Paul says, “I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people.�


I’m wondering if you were in fact thinking these revealed secrets would be more of an intellectual or academic knowledge? The secrets that Paul is talking about are those truths revealed to the Church that the world does not get. We are talking about things like we need to lose our life in order to find it. Secrets like the more you give, the more you get. The notion that monogamy will bring man greater happiness and the awesome truth behind the indissolubility of the marital union is so contrary to the ideals of the secular world. Secrets like there is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for a friend. Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted. Blessed are they who are persecuted, etc. It is these beautiful truths that the Church has taught Christians throughout the ages. It is these mysteries that are man’s secret to happiness/peace and joy. The secular world does not get it. Blessed are the hungry? They don’t get it. This is why they don’t get the Church. They don’t the man of Jesus and they don’t get God.

They see contradiction and oxymoron. They hear what! No sex before marriage! Having to stay married to the same person your whole life! Having 5 or more kids! Being poor is good! Eating Christ’s Flesh! Being mocked! Becoming like little children! They are intelligent adults, after-all. all of those things sound horrible! But Christ says, trust me. The Church says, come and see. These are the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven.

[William]

@

William: If the Disciples had shared those secrets with the Church, then the Church would be able to impart them to the Church Children, who would then be able to impart them to the world.

RightReason: That is exactly what the Church does on a daily basis.


William: If that were so, then the world would not be in ignorance about The Knowledge of The Secrets of The Kingdom of Heaven.

RightReason: First, I don’t agree with you that the world is ignorant about knowledge of the kingdom. I would Christendom knows a good amount. Second, I would say of course we don’t know everything, but God has revealed to us what He feels it is important for us to know.


William: I don't know why you have confused "Christendom" with "The World" regarding what I wrote...or why you claim the Church knows 'a goodly amount' about The Kingdom of Heaven. Perhaps you have evidence? If so, please show.

RightReason: In Scripture we read how the crowds refused to go on with Jesus when He told them they would need to eat His Flesh and drink His Blood, but the disciples remained with Him


William: I recall that Jesus was not in public when he instituted this symbolic rite.
Can you cite the script to support your claim?

The Script: I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.
You do not want to leave too, do you? Jesus asked the Twelve
Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
We have come to believe and to know that you are the Holy One of God


William: That is interesting script. It shows that well before Jesus revealed the secret, he tested the judgmental.
Those that remained - this was because - they were interested...

RightReason: And what did they do? They went on to teach the beautiful secret of the True Presence, in the Holy Eucharist, which the Church celebrates as a perpetual offering every day. What bigger secret is there than unless we eat His Body and drink His Blood we have no life in us.


William: If this is an example of The Knowledge of The Secrets of The Kingdom of Heaven, it falls short of the mark.
Symbolically it is to remind the Disciples of sacrifice for a greater cause and does not reveal the existence of the Metaphysical to those who partake. It does not of itself allow the partaker how to experience the Kingdom of Heaven.

RightReason: We Catholics believe that is exactly what it does. We literally receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. THAT is a pretty awesome experience of the kingdom of heaven.


William: Beliefs of themselves do not reveal secrets.
In what way is it 'an awesome experience'?
It what way does it make one 'divine'?
It is one thing to make such claims, but how do We Catholics prove this is what actually happens?
Nothing appears out of the ordinary from an observers pov. People line up for a wafer. There beliefs about what occurs to the wafer, are not supported by evidence. They are taught to conflate belief with symbolism, and symbolism with the literal.
But therein is no evidence of known secrets of The Kingdom of Heaven.


RightReason: Google Eucharistic Miracles to understand what is actually happening when we partake of the Body and Blood. It isn’t a symbolic “preparing�. What occurs is a literal transformation. An awesome mystery! How God is able to do this, we cannot fathom, but He has revealed to us that in fact the bread and wine do become His Body and Blood. So, as you can see He does reveal this awesome mystery.


William: I say again.
This is belief which is set to consolidate the lost sheep and prepare them for the Safe Place I mentioned - something you have yet to address.

"What these things do is allow for a place to be created in The Kingdom of Heaven whereby the Shepard has made the sheep safe."

In that, your beliefs allow you to have prepared for you , the safe place for the sheep.
This in itself does not amount to The Knowledge of The Secrets of The Kingdom of Heaven.
I have granted that beliefs of such nature allow for Jesus to bring his sheep to their safe place.
It matters not to me, that some of the sheep appear not to like all of the sheep.
The Shepard Loves All Of His Sheep.
(That, dear RightReason, should not be counted as any mystery.)

RightReason:The Church beautifully teaches the awesome mystery of the Trinity.


William: It teaches such AS a mystery, which is hardly revealing said Mystery.

RightReason: Like I said, we can’t expect to understand all the mysteries of the supernatural, but they are revealed to us.


William: Did you say that?
Okay then. I never said otherwise.
What I am- and have been - referring to, is THE KNOWLEDGE of said mysteries. Understanding said mysteries is what makes them non-mysteries.
This is what Jesus taught those Disciples. Those Disciples did not give the Church that knowledge. That is why they are still gloriously 'mysterious' to the sheep.

RightReason: Something (a secret) can be true/real and revealed and yet remain a mystery because well, it’s a mystery. Even in heaven we may not fully understand how God is able to do what He does. He’s God for crying out loud. He’s a mystery, and yet He is continually revealing Himself to us.


William: The mystery I am referring to is not GOD. It is The Knowledge of The Secrets of The Kingdom of Heaven.
As far as I am concerned, I have no problem with any belief that allows for the Sheep to be Safe...I am somewhat concerned that their are sheep among them who are being Judgmental and that this might cause those ones to not be as safe as they assume...

Rule of thumb - if anyone says they follow Jesus, let Jesus be the judge on that and meantime, accept them on account of their word, when you are unable to view their actions.
Case in point, the wee spat between the Jehovah's Witnesses and The Catholics.
As I said, the Church was not given the authority to Judge Jury and Execute.

RightReason: Oooh . . . if that is what you think then it seems like you do not understand it is in fact a mystery. God’s gift of love, sex, marital union, procreation, the gift of life, are not simply physical gifts. For example, the marital union is an inseparable bond that once God brings together man cannot separate. That is not simply a symbolic statement. It is a fact, hence a mystery.

William: Facts do indeed present mysteries. If you think contraception is not practiced in the Kingdom of Heaven, I would tend to agree as such is irrelevant.


RightReason: God’s gift of love, sex, marital union, procreation, the gift of life, are not simply physical gifts. For example, the marital union is an inseparable bond that once God brings together man cannot separate. That is not simply a symbolic statement. It is a fact, hence a mystery.


William: They are in the Physical Universe, due largely to the necessity of establishing human cultures sufficiently for Jesus to be able to work with.
I agree too, that within the safe-house for the sheep, the tendency is for them to continue on with processes they identified with in the Physical Universe.
There is nothing untoward therein. The JWs have a similar belief in relation to the next phase. It is better than what many believe about the afterdeath.

Jesus and Humans are inseparable.

RightReason: I could go on and on and talk about the secret of the assumption of our Blessed Mother that the Church reveals to her children. So, no idea what you are talking about when you say God’s Church does not reveal the secrets of the kingdom of God.

William: I agree with your last sentence, and have explained to the reader exactly WHY that is the case. The Church was not given The Knowledge of The Secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven, so it stands to reason that her Children would also have no idea.
You are attempting to explain that knowing about secrets is the same thing as knowing secrets, and then argue from that position.

RightReason: Here was today’s reading at mass. I believe it completely contradicts your statement. I also believe it is in your Bible too . . .

The Script: Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.
I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness - the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people.
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ.

William: Paul mentions making known the mystery being disclosed to the Lords people, but what is that mystery, he does not appear to tell.

Notably, Paul refers to The Word of GOD as "it" - which does not align with Jesus referring to himself as "The Word". Perhaps Paul is speaking about something else.

Even so, I do not see therein, anything in the script you gave which contradicts what I said concerning what The Church was not given...
that being, The Knowledge of The Secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven.


RightReason: I’m really unclear how a person could read that passage and claim the Church was not entrusted to reveal the mysteries of the kingdom to God’s people.

William: So far the evidence you used say's nothing of such things. All that has been claimed is that there are "mysteries" which remain so.

RightReason: And like above how you are completely unfamiliar with the crowds leaving over Jesus’ words in John 6:50. Are we reading the same Bible?

William: I was thinking about the event prior to Jesus being arrested, in which he finally revealed to the Disciples what he meant by those words.

RightReason: What I think people often do is start with a philosophy or invented theology and then go back and try to extract verses they think they can use to support their view. Unfortunately, reading as a whole is important, as well as recognizing we are always to make sure our interpretation does not contradict Christ’s Church’s interpretation.


William: As I have shown, your own "Christ Church's Interpretation" as to The Knowledge of the Secrets of The kingdom of Heaven lacks substance. You are obviously arguing that one can know that there are secrets that exist, but not know what those secrets are, and that somehow that position counts as 'having The Knowledge of the Secrets of The kingdom of Heaven."
In reality, it does not.
The Church was not given The Knowledge of The Secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven, so it stands to reason that her Children would also have no idea.
One has to want to go there and it appears letting go is the hardest thing for one to do, in regard to that.
Jesus understood that most would choose not to, so he set up a way in which he could make the Children safe in the Kingdom of Heaven, by providing them that safe place through their beliefs, be they Catholic beliefs or any other belief of organised religion

RightReason: Such a reduction of Christ’s Church, His bride.

William: She is told what she wants to hear...what she chooses not to hear, is not her Husbands concern. He need not waste breath trying to explain anything She does not wish to know.
Regardless, He Loves Her. He knows that as her children depart the mortal Kingdom, they will then get to know a little bit more about The Knowledge of The Secrets of the Kingdom of Heaven...with the added bonus of having access to that knowledge...as each Child decides to want to know more.

The important thing is, that Their Children are in a safe place.
In That, The Wife performing her role, is helpful to that process.

There is no 'reduction' therein. The Church is as the Church chooses to be.

RightReason: Jesus doesn’t do secondary. Everything He does for a purpose.

William: He does not force those who do not wish to know.
He has not given his bride permission to perform his role as Judge, or speak out of turn or make claims contrary to his own.


RightReason: I think you aren’t fully getting His Church.


William: So far I have been spot on in relation to the claims you are making on behalf of that which you believe is 'His Church'.
I appears that it is you who are not getting what revealed secrets actually are, and are arguing that being informed that secrets exist, is the same thing as knowing what those secrets are.

RightReason: Unfortunately, Scripture itself tells us the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.


William: Then I would expect anyone claiming to speak on behalf of the Church, to be truthful in their expressions and to know what they are talking about.
If not, then it might be the case that the spokes-person is speaking for something else.

RightReason: They don’t refer to the Church as a safe place – those are your words.

William: Read my words again then. The safe place referred to is in regard to peoples beliefs and where those beliefs take them in the next phase.
In this way, Jesus has been able to create a safe place for the dear departed sheep...

[William]

@

RightReason: I’m wondering if you were in fact thinking these revealed secrets would be more of an intellectual or academic knowledge?

William: Those things the Church can teach.

What I am referring to is knowledge the church is unable to teach.
What I am referring to is knowledge the sheep are generally afraid to enter into.
What I am referring to is the same as what Jesus is referring to.
Knowledge through experience.
Such as what occurs when one enters the Gate To the Kingdom of Heaven.

The Script: Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let in those who wish to enter. …

[marco]

The secrets that Paul is talking about are those truths revealed to the Church that the world does not get. We are talking about things like we need to lose our life in order to find it. Secrets like the more you give, the more you get. The notion that monogamy will bring man greater happiness ….

And yet God endowed Solomon with wisdom, and Solomon had 1000 wives and concubines. Great literature is full of wonderful aphorisms, often in the guise of paradoxes; we lose in order to gain. "Each man kills the thing he loves". (Wilde); "Nor dread nor hope attend a dying animal; a man awaits his end dreading and hoping all." Yeats
" a coward dies a thousand times before his death, but the valiant taste of death but once. It seems to me most strange that men should fear, seeing that death, a necessary end, will come when it will come" Shakespeare in Julius Caesar.
"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit. Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.� Fitzgerald's wonderful rendering of Omar Khayyam.

I would place Paul's sermon on love beside the best as well as David's lament for Jonathan.


We rise above the dust by the wisdom of our dead brothers; dead poets speak to us and hell is confounded. The worst of men make hell and the best offer paradise.

Blessed are the hungry? They don’t get it. This is why they don’t get the Church. They don’t the man of Jesus and they don’t get God.

Most get it all right. It is not hard to appreciate good poetry. They understand, from their own experience, the utter joy of the father who saw his prodigal son at a distance. The crucial difference is they do not see that heaven plays a necessary role in forgiveness, in helping the poor, in being good to the weak. But if in the winter of time God wishes to reward those who have helped their fellow humans, he will, no doubt, forgive their blindness. Like Bethoven, atheists will see in heaven, if heaven there is. As Milton found, there is no sin in being blind. One's fellow mortals are the accusers, not God.