If you don't trust the Bible, Where do you look for truth?

[2timothy316]

What say you?
Also, if you don't see an option in the vote then add it in a comment.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 20 by marco]

How do you know your sources for truth be trusted?

[2timothy316]

In your questions for me are you seeking truth or displaying the happy situation of your possession of it?

Truth is not a possession, it's available to everyone, but it is an honor to direct or point others to it. The Bible calls truth a treasure but unlike other treasures, it's not meant to be hidden away or kept to ourselves. The Bible also calls truth a light. Some stare into the light and place it on pedestal for all to see. Others cover their eyes than take it an put it under a basket to hide it.

I am asking you nothing I have not asked myself. I'm just interested in the answers of others to see how far have they challenged themselves. Wondering when it is they cover something so they will not have to look at it.

So far what I can from your answers there is a fear of men that turns your head. In the fear that someone might know more perhaps? Maybe you view seeking truth as a competition? I have noted in many of your post you have said you don't have something and neither do I. Fear is the only reason I cant think of someone would make such a presumptuous claim. In your question above it seems you have a fear that I'm somehow gloating in what I know. That I'm some sort of haughty person, dangling knowledge just out of reach you so that I can feel superior to you. Yet in reality there is no information that can be kept from us, only what we want to keep from ourselves. The purpose of this post is to make manifest the exact point when a person turns away from the Bible. Yet there are many threads on this forum bashing the Bible and these people sure are happy to do it. Yet there are not many that dare to expose their alternative source for truth about God. Are they ashamed? Is it not as reliable as they thought? What turns a person head one way or another?

[marco]

[Replying to post 20 by marco]

How do you know your sources for truth be trusted?

Like you I cannot be certain that what I have is truth; I can relate what I have to what others proclaim and feel confident I have a better model, but that's all relative. Newton too knew that he had discovered a brighter pebble than others had but the vast ocean lay unexplored and unknown before him.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 20 by marco]

How do you know your sources for truth be trusted?

Like you I cannot be certain that what I have is truth; I can relate what I have to what others proclaim and feel confident I have a better model, but that's all relative. Newton too knew that he had discovered a brighter pebble than others had but the vast ocean lay unexplored and unknown before him.

Why is it important that people can't be certain that what they have is truth about God? I have seen you say this about other things as well.

[marco]

So far what I can …. from your answers there is a fear of men that turns your head.

If I fear anything it is those who place their God before friends and family, people who would, like the brute Abraham, slaughter their son at a superstitious whisper.

I have noted in many of your post you have said you don't have something and neither do I. Fear is the only reason I can think of someone would make such a presumptuous claim.

My only assumption is that you are human, and therefore not in possession of certainty. There are areas of mathematics where we can claim certainty but in matters of morality, religion or such like there is much opinion and no certainty. Some claim certainty but of course man can claim anything. There is presumption in believing one has certainty as regards truth.

In your question above it seems you have a fear that I'm somehow gloating in what I know.

I don't see any signs of your gloating - what have you to gloat about? - and I am unable to analyse an anonymity. I can interpret the words you use and make deductions from them on your learning and scholarship but to air my findings would be inappropriate. It is best always to respond to what has been written and forget the writer here.

Yet there are not many that dare to expose their alternative source for truth about God. Are they ashamed? Is it not as reliable as they thought? What turns a person head one way or another?

There are some who claim their Church presents truth via Christ who said he would never desert his church. That church wasn't set up in the 19th century but dates back apostolically to Christ himself. That's a reasonable claaim for truth which I once found attractive. It would be an absurdity to discard this august source with its traditions and manuscrips reaching back in time and harken to the trumpet call of some person in modern times who heard God whispering in the night.There be deception, not truth, I think.

But if you are still searching who knows what institution (or none) you might choose?

[Divine Insight]

If you don't trust the Bible, Where do you look for truth?

Truth about what?

I see no reason to even believe that a God exists, therefore I'm not looking for any truth about God. That would be like looking for truth about fairies.

Now you might ask, "What about the question of the existence of a God itself?'

I personally consider that question to be unanswerable. I'm not about to pretend to have "truth" about something that cannot be known.

I trust the scientific method to reveal to use truths about the physical world. And the reason I trust science is because it has proven itself to be true. This doesn't make every possible "theory" in science true. But I accept that the scientific findings on the age of the earth and the fact that humans evolved from primates to be fundamental truths that have been verified to be true beyond any "reasonable" doubt.

That doesn't tell me anything about whether or not any "God" might or might not exist. Although it does pretty much rule out certain God myths such as the Hebrew Biblical myths.

I have no clue how the universe came into existence. I don't bother myself with the question because I personally consider it to be unanswerable. I'm not going to worry about "truths" that cannot be known.

I have no clue what will happen to me when I die. As far as I know I'll just black out and that will be that. I'll simply cease to exist precisely as I did before I was born.

Do I know that this is "truth". No. And neither do I care. As far as I'm concerned no one knows the answer to the question and so why worry about a "truth" that no one can know?

You have in your poll, "Truth is not possible to find, so I stopped looking."

Ironically, I do believe that this is the truth when it comes to some questions.

If the truth is that some questions are unanswerable, then why not accept that as being the truth?

In fact, this comes up in religion all the time. If the truth is that I can't know whether or not there is a God, then even if there is a God, why should I pretend to know that the God exists when I can't know this to be true?

In short, to believe in a God that we can't know to be true is to live a lie.

Also, if there is a God who is interested in truth shouldn't that God be pleased with people who confess that they cannot know whether or not a God exists? Why would a God be less than pleased with people who are simply telling the truth?

Same thing goes with religious doctrines. If I find a particular doctrine to be disgusting, should I tell the truth about that? It shouldn't matter whether there is a God behind the doctrine or not. We should still be truthful about our opinions on the doctrine itself.

So when it comes to religion, I can truthfully say that I find the Hebrew, Christian, and/or Islamic doctrines and God disgusting. That's the truth.

If there's a God who is interested in truth then he should have no bones to pick with me for stating the truth.

I wouldn't turn to the Bible for "truth", as far as I can see the Bible is disgusting and ignorant. I wouldn't want to have anything to do with a God who would command men to stone each other to death, etc.

So there's my truth.

Let's not even get into all the rest that would be wrong with this God, like the fact that he would have necessarily been the one to design animals that prey on each other, diseases that cause horrible suffering, pain and death, etc., etc., etc.

So if there is any "truth" I can take away from the Bible it can only be that the Bible clearly has nothing to do with any decent loving God.

That is clearly the truth as far as I can see.

So in that sense you can say that I did learn some "truth" from the Bible., And that truth is that the Bible cannot have anything to do with any supposedly loving decent God.

[marco]

Why is it important that people can't be certain that what they have is truth about God? I have seen you say this about other things as well.

I can readily understand why people would want certainty; it is an anchor. God in distress is worth all the medicines we may have if he lifts our pain or sadness. I have attended funerals where the grieving relatives were obviously comforted by what took place, however hollow and meaningless it may have been to one who sees nothing divine in a rainstorm or a sunbeam.

[2timothy316]

Why is it important that people can't be certain that what they have is truth about God? I have seen you say this about other things as well.

I can readily understand why people would want certainty; it is an anchor. God in distress is worth all the medicines we may have if he lifts our pain or sadness. I have attended funerals where the grieving relatives were obviously comforted by what took place, however hollow and meaningless it may have been to one who sees nothing divine in a rainstorm or a sunbeam.

So because you can't attain certainty no one else can. Is this not an anchor that you were merely ready to accept and why accept this one?

[2timothy316]

So far what I can …. from your answers there is a fear of men that turns your head.

If I fear anything it is those who place their God before friends and family, people who would, like the brute Abraham, slaughter their son at a superstitious whisper.

At least I see where and why you turned away from the Bible and looked elsewhere. It's creature worship and it's very common.

I have noted in many of your post you have said you don't have something and neither do I. Fear is the only reason I can think of someone would make such a presumptuous claim.

My only assumption is that you are human, and therefore not in possession of certainty. There are areas of mathematics where we can claim certainty but in matters of morality, religion or such like there is much opinion and no certainty. Some claim certainty but of course man can claim anything. There is presumption in believing one has certainty as regards truth.

Yet do you see the hypocrisy when you speak with such absolute certainty?

In your question above it seems you have a fear that I'm somehow gloating in what I know.

I don't see any signs of your gloating - what have you to gloat about? - and I am unable to analyse an anonymity. I can interpret the words you use and make deductions from them on your learning and scholarship but to air my findings would be inappropriate. It is best always to respond to what has been written and forget the writer here.

Yet many times you are telling me personally what I know and what I don't. I cannot answer without answering to the a writer that says, 'you know this and you don't know that'. Indeed, it is better to respond to what has been written.

Yet there are not many that dare to expose their alternative source for truth about God. Are they ashamed? Is it not as reliable as they thought? What turns a person head one way or another?

There are some who claim their Church presents truth via Christ who said he would never desert his church. That church wasn't set up in the 19th century but dates back apostolically to Christ himself. That's a reasonable claaim for truth which I once found attractive. It would be an absurdity to discard this august source with its traditions and manuscrips reaching back in time and harken to the trumpet call of some person in modern times who heard God whispering in the night.There be deception, not truth, I think.

But if you are still searching who knows what institution (or none) you might choose?

I prefer to be around those that still search yet search with certainty truth about God is attainable. This is a trust not in my ability to search but in God's ability make the truth about Him known. I have found Matthew 7:7 to be good advice, "Keep asking, and it will be given to you. Keep searching, and you will find. Keep knocking, and the door will be opened to you."

[shnarkle]

[Replying to post 8 by JehovahsWitness]

...accept everything in the bible as the Word of God

Did God say...

God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Is there any place within the bible that suggests that the bible is the word of God? Are there any claims made by the authors that the scriptures inspired by God are actually God's word?