Is the support for Trump contrary to Christian values?

[Danmark]

Does evangelical support for Trump create a crisis for Christianity?
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi ... cn2gnaekoQ

Are his policies and personal character consistent with Christian values?

Related to this, should a Christian who wants to bear witness for the risen Christ sell all he has, give to the poor, and follow Jesus?
Or should he or she accumulate wealth to show he is blessed by God?

[Danmark]

I guess if you can believe in a virgin birth, talking donkeys and snakes, a world wide flood, fiery chariots flying into the sky, and the reanimation of the dead, you can believe donald drumpf is a Christian.

[2ndRateMind]

I guess if you can believe in a virgin birth, talking donkeys and snakes, a world wide flood, fiery chariots flying into the sky, and the reanimation of the dead, you can believe donald drumpf is a Christian.

You do not need to disparage Christianity to disparage the bully Trump. So far as I can ascertain, they are entirely disconnected entities. Thus, their elision does not seem conducive to clarity of thought.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[Danmark]

I guess if you can believe in a virgin birth, talking donkeys and snakes, a world wide flood, fiery chariots flying into the sky, and the reanimation of the dead, you can believe donald drumpf is a Christian.

You do not need to disparage Christianity to disparage the bully Trump. So far as I can ascertain, they are entirely disconnected entities. Thus, their elision does not seem conducive to clarity of thought.

How did I "disparage" Christianity? I simply recited Christian beliefs by reciting "virgin birth, talking donkeys and snakes, a world wide flood, fiery chariots flying into the sky, and the reanimation of the dead." Are you not proud of those beliefs? To claim my recitation was "disparaging" is to admit those beliefs are ridiculous. Is that your position?

BTW, did you mean to use 'elision?' "Their inclusion" would have made more sense. What i find incredible is that so many Christian groups seem to accept Trump as a Christian and support him because of that acceptance. This is a man who has shown over his lifetime that he is an inveterate liar, cheat, thief, adulterer, sexual predator, felon, racist, and boor. Why would Christians champion someone who represents the exact opposite of the example Jesus set?

I was raised an evangelical and even served in the mission field as a young adult. i have never met a Christian who acted like Trump, or would condone his behavior. I am completely mystified as to why the demographic of white evangelicals and so many 'Christian' groups fawn over him and wear MAGA hats. He isn't just the worst President we've ever had, he's the worst person to ever stand in the public square in my lifetime. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I love the Jesus I came to know thru the Gospels. That he is the antithesis of Trump seems obvious.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 43 by Danmark]

...I love the Jesus I came to know thru the Gospels. That he is the antithesis of Trump seems obvious.

I think we agree more than we disagree. And I am content to leave it so.

Best wishes, 2RM.

PS google has the verb 'to elide' as 'to join together, merge'. That was the sense in which I used the term 'elision'.

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 43 by Danmark]

Quote:
...I love the Jesus I came to know thru the Gospels. That he is the antithesis of Trump seems obvious.

Doesn’t it also seem obvious Hillary Clinton and her being ok with killing babies, even after they are born is the antithesis of Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels? How about Bill Clinton getting it on in the oval office with Monica Lewinski. What about JFK’s extra marital affairs? How about Obama not fighting for the most vulnerable among us, the unborn, and instead pushing his extreme pro abortion/anti-life policies and programs?

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 43 by Danmark]

Quote:
...I love the Jesus I came to know thru the Gospels. That he is the antithesis of Trump seems obvious.

Doesn’t it also seem obvious Hillary Clinton and her being ok with killing babies, even after they are born is the antithesis of Jesus’ teachings in the Gospels? How about Bill Clinton getting it on in the oval office with Monica Lewinski. What about JFK’s extra marital affairs? How about Obama not fighting for the most vulnerable among us, the unborn, and instead pushing his extreme pro abortion/anti-life policies and programs?

This is the classic, and ridiculous anti logic known these days as 'whataboutism.'
It also cites false beliefs as if they were facts. Hillary Clinton has not suggested it is OK to kill babies.

When you 'whatabout' Bill Clinton for having consensual sex with Trump raping and feloniously touching people against their will, you are making the classic non logical 'whataboutism' error.

It's as if I criticized Hitler for killing millions and you said, "what about a boxer who knocks someone unconscious."

YOUR opinion on abortion is NOT established by the Bible or Jesus. Or can you quote Jesus on this? Go ahead, Try.

Actually I should thank you for your argument because that argument demonstrates my thesis, that there is a segment of what some claim is 'Christianity' that cares more about being anti Democrat policies than they care about the values Jesus expressed. Jesus taught us to love our neighbors and help the poor. Some who claim to be Christian seemed more concerned about abortion and same sex marriage than the love that is at the core of true Christian values.

[RightReason]

[Replying to post 46 by Danmark]

This is the classic, and ridiculous anti logic known these days as 'whataboutism.'

Actually what I am bringing up is the very classic logical argument of when confronted with two evils, having to choose between the lesser of the two evils.

It also cites false beliefs as if they were facts. Hillary Clinton has not suggested it is OK to kill babies.

Actually she absolutely has. I think a lot of people don’t even know what our current politicians are pushing in regards to abortion. Hillary Clinton voted against a ban on what is referred to as partial-birth abortions. It means Hillary thinks it is ok, to pull the baby half way out of the womb, take a knife, and stick it in the back of the baby’s neck in order to kill it. THAT is what she voted for. Trump said that is not ok with him.

Recently in New York, lawmakers are making abortion available not only until moments before birth, but are also repealing laws that are designed to protect babies that survive abortion and are born alive. They would allow abortion even if the pregnancy was full-term and the mother was actually in labor even when the baby could clearly based on science survive outside the womb.

Those are the facts. People need to be made aware of what it is we are actually talking about.

When you 'whatabout' Bill Clinton for having consensual sex with Trump raping and feloniously touching people against their will, you are making the classic non logical 'whataboutism' error.

It's as if I criticized Hitler for killing millions and you said, "what about a boxer who knocks someone unconscious."

Not at all. Like I said, it is the classic lesser of two evils argument. Neither candidate Trump or Clinton were individuals of good moral character. You could easily argue they were both poor choices, but if one has to choose, I certainly would rather NOT choose the candidate who is ok with killing babies.

YOUR opinion on abortion is NOT established by the Bible or Jesus. Or can you quote Jesus on this? Go ahead, Try.

All men can know the wrongness of abortion regardless of belief in God. It pretty much comes down to the Golden Rule. Of course, there is also proof from the Bible if that is what one is looking for – how about, “thou shall not kill�. And guess what? If one is a Christian, the Church also proclaims abortion is a grace immoral act. Because remember, as Christians the Bible alone is not our authority. Christ left us His Church.

Actually I should thank you for your argument because that argument demonstrates my thesis, that there is a segment of what some claim is 'Christianity' that cares more about being anti Democrat policies than they care about the values Jesus expressed. Jesus taught us to love our neighbors and help the poor

Ha, ha, ha . . . can’t think of a closer neighbor than the unborn in the womb. Nor can I think of anyone poorer. So, what about them? Why don’t they count? I don’t think Jesus would have dehumanized them, especially since the science is settled that they are human beings. I also don’t think Jesus would have said it was ok to kill them since they are small, can’t speak for themselves yet, and can’t really fight back. Maybe you are referring to a different Jesus than me?

. Some who claim to be Christian seemed more concerned about abortion and same sex marriage than the love that is at the core of true Christian values.

Love is wanting the best for the other. Abortion not only kills the baby, it also harms the woman. Abortion is not love.

[Danmark]

https://www.comicsands.com/pro-birth-tr ... Id7asymvBQ

A. This is NOT an abortion thread.
B. I find it criminally ironic that the same people who call themselves "pro life" consistently vote against aid to the poor. They want to force unwanted pregnancies, usually with parents who cannot afford more children, then vote against child care and public assistance. They seem to love 'people' until they are born.

[RightReason]

[Replying to Danmark]

A. This is NOT an abortion thread.

It is a thread about politics and Christian values. Abortion (taking the innocent life of a baby in the womb) is not only a Christian value, it is a human rights issue!

B. I find it criminally ironic that the same people who call themselves "pro life" consistently vote against aid to the poor. They want to force unwanted pregnancies, usually with parents who cannot afford more children, then vote against child care and public assistance. They seem to love 'people' until they are born.

That is an awful lot of false rhetoric. It is typically the pro lifers who do more for women and the poor than other groups.

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Pro-Life Groups Bring Humanitarian Aid to U.S.-Mexico Border

As last year multiple pro-life groups donated to help conditions at the border. She said this year more than 40 pro-life groups have contributed in a drive the organization is holding, including Loyola Catholic, Libertarian Light, FemCatholic, Latinos for Life and Mercy Missions.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/victoriam ... r-n2549866

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•This study showed that 12 of the top 13 states in average individual giving were “red� states ― those states that tend to vote for Republicans.

•The bottom seven and the bottom 11 of 12 states in average individual giving in 2012 were “blue� states ― those states that tend to vote for Democrats.


•In addition to being more charitable, pro-life people are much more generous in the service of life than pro-abortion people


•In summary, people who are more religious have more children and are more generous in helping others as well.


Religious people express their native generosity in many other ways. The Roman Catholic Church operates 26% of all of the health care facilities in the entire world, including 117,000 hospitals, clinics and orphanages, 18,000 pharmacies and 512 centers for the care of those with leprosy. This includes 911 hospitals and health care facilities and 418 orphanages in the United States.6

https://www.hli.org/resources/pro-lifer ... eyre-born/

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Care Net’s 2014 study of its pregnancy centers found that they provided more than 142,000 clients with maternal support and supplies and 734,000 clients with sexual health and parenting education. Combined, Care Net’s services saved communities more than $56 million last year.


A Care Net center in Waco, Texas just opened a twenty-four-bedroom facility for homeless pregnant women. In addition to shelter, women will receive much needed education and support as they get back onto their feet.


Pregnancy centers provide services for the poor, minority, and at-risk babies before and after their birth. If these centers only cared about them in the womb, why would they provide parenting classes, diapers, financial support, and other aid to these children and their mothers? Clearly, their actions indicate that this accusation is unfounded.

https://www.care-net.org/abundant-life- ... nt-exposed

If facts matter, your comments are unfounded.

[Danmark]

[Replying to Danmark]

A. This is NOT an abortion thread.

It is a thread about politics and Christian values. Abortion (taking the innocent life of a baby in the womb) is not only a Christian value, it is a human rights issue!

No, it is not a "Christian" value. Christians are on both sides of the issue of a woman's right to choose, to control her own body. It is a POLITICAL ISSUE. I started the thread. it is about Trump betraying Christians values. Jesus never said a thing about abortion. Start your own thread on abortion. Please do not hijack this thread to bring in your pet POLITICAL issue.