What is the church Christ founded?

[marco]

From Matthew 16 we have:

17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.



Discussion has taken place over what Christ meant here. It seems clear enough he was using a pun on Peter's name, a rock, when he was founding his earthly church on Peter's shoulders.


That would give authority to the RC Church which takes Peter as the first Pope.


However it is argued that Jesus meant that HE was the rock and he was founding his Church on himself, as rock. As the words stand, that seems a spurious interpretation.

So what do the words mean?

[Eloi]

[Replying to post 80 by tam]

Tam, if you are a Bible student, you probably know that in Israel not all Israelites were priests ... so it should not be too difficult for you to understand that not all Christians will be priests either.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 80 by tam]

Tam, if you are a Bible student, you probably know that in Israel not all Israelites were priests ... so it should not be too difficult for you to understand that not all Christians will be priests either.

If you believe that, Eloi, then how do you reconcile that belief with what Peter says in 1 Peter 2? He writes:

• "But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY."

All Christians are priests; God has made it so. Perhaps your understanding of what a priest is in God's economy is a bit off.

[Eloi]

[Replying to post 82 by PinSeeker]

I do believe what Peter said, and I still believe that what he said does not apply to all Christians, the same way it does not apply to God's servants before Christ.

Matt 11:11 Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.

I don't even think that all who call themselves "christians" are really Christians (Matt 7:21-23) .

[Yusef]

[Replying to post 65 by PinSeeker]

Not only for the divinity of Jesus[pbuh]!

Indeed we assume these dears[JWs] have wrong belief of the trinity like to you catholics/protestants/mormons... and other astray too.

But they believe in the Bada'!

For that reason i enjoyed their beliefs!

Do you believe in Bada' too!?
Nope.

Forgive me, Yusef, but I cannot even come close to following what you're saying -- I have no idea what you are trying to say.

"Not only for the divinity of Jesus" is a sentence fragment; I have no idea what you mean by this.

Likewise, "we assume these dears[JWs] have wrong belief of the trinity like to you catholics/protestants/mormons... and other astray too" makes no sense to me.

you all branches o Christianity are Paulity but JWs
But we assume they[JWs] are such as you polytheism,
But they are the only belief except for Shi'a Islam that believe in Bada'
Means i know only 2 beliefs believe in Bada':

• Shi'a/Islam
  JWs

And you say I don't believe in "Bada'"... Quite frankly, I have no idea what you're referring to. What is "Bada'?"

i brought that's link in the previous posts

Grace and peace to you.

2 u 2
Toyota

I wanna invite you to debate about these 3 important concepts
And realize the Truth.

Debating about Bada' exists in the Topic of Bada' here:
viewtopic.php?t=35216

And Purgatory here:
viewtopic.php?t=35467

I await for if i thought wrong, you make me awake.
thanks specially to you dear JWs that i enjoyed when last night read your beliefs

I invite you both JWs and Catholics to debate two important concepts of:

• 1. Bada'
  2. Purgatory

And I wanna defend JWs for the Bada'
And defend Catholics for the Purgatory

And or you convince me that i'm wrong
Then i change my belief

Common!
Why do you who claim are upon the Truth, you don't convince me???

[PinSeeker]

I do believe what Peter said, and I still believe that what he said does not apply to all Christians, the same way it does not apply to God's servants before Christ.

That's cool. But with all due respect, this is incorrect. I disagree. All Christians -- if they are indeed Christians -- have entered into the kingdom through the blood of Christ.

I don't even think that all who call themselves "christians" are really Christians (Matt 7:21-23) .

Agreed.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 84 by Yusef]

I see... you don't believe in the triune Godhead (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit). Muslims (both Shi'a and Sunni) believe that calling all three "God" amounts to polytheism rather than monotheism. To Muslims, this is the unforgivable sin called "shirk," right? No, trinitarian Christians would most certainly disagree and assert that they are just as monotheistic as Muslims or Jehovah's Witnesses or any other group who claim to be monotheists. I'm not going to try to convince you, but the Christian Bible clearly teaches One True God, Who exists in three distinct Persons:

• * God the Father is Spirit
  * Jesus Christ, Who proceeds from God the Father, is God made man
  * the Holy Spirit, Who also proceeds from God the Father, is spirit and the agent of the power and will of God the Father

BUT YET... the Three together are the One True God. As human beings, we can't fully understand it, but we can -- if we so choose -- accept it. It's true, however, whether we do or not. And one great day (not in this life, however, but the next) we will understand it completely.

As for Bada', as I understand it, this has to do with predestination. As I understand it, the belief among Shi'a is that God does not have a fixed plan for human history, but rather that humans are in charge of the fulfillment of divine destiny and can advance, stop or reverse the course of history. I don't know if Jehovah's Witnesses would agree with that or not, but in any case, that's contrary to God's Word. There are many Christians who believe that, and that does not disqualify them as Christians. but only means that they are mistaken. Nothing -- no one and no thing created -- can thwart the Creator God's purposes.

Grace and peace to you, Yusef.

[IaLoaou]

[Replying to post 84 by Yusef]

I see... you don't believe in the triune Godhead (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit). Muslims (both Shi'a and Sunni) believe that calling all three "God" amounts to polytheism rather than monotheism. To Muslims, this is the unforgivable sin called "shirk," right? No, trinitarian Christians would most certainly disagree and assert that they are just as monotheistic as Muslims or Jehovah's Witnesses or any other group who claim to be monotheists. I'm not going to try to convince you, but the Christian Bible clearly teaches One True God, Who exists in three distinct Persons:

• * God the Father is Spirit
  * Jesus Christ, Who proceeds from God the Father, is God made man
  * the Holy Spirit, Who also proceeds from God the Father, is spirit and the agent of the power and will of God the Father

BUT YET... the Three together are the One True God.

God is the Holy Spirit the Father of Jesus Christ.
The two are joined together as one.

True or false?

[IaLoaou]

[Replying to post 82 by PinSeeker]

I do believe what Peter said, and I still believe that what he said does not apply to all Christians, the same way it does not apply to God's servants before Christ.

Matt 11:11 Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.

I don't even think that all who call themselves "christians" are really Christians (Matt 7:21-23) .

There are only
two types
two sets
two races of people
on all the Earth
the children of the devil and the children of God.

True or false?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 82 by PinSeeker]

I do believe what Peter said, and I still believe that what he said does not apply to all Christians, the same way it does not apply to God's servants before Christ.

Matt 11:11 Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.

I don't even think that all who call themselves "christians" are really Christians (Matt 7:21-23) .

There are only
two types
two sets
two races of people
on all the Earth
the children of the devil and the children of God.

True or false?

Tares and the good seed. So, yes some are just filler sent by the Adversary to drag us down.

[IaLoaou]

[Replying to post 82 by PinSeeker]

I do believe what Peter said, and I still believe that what he said does not apply to all Christians, the same way it does not apply to God's servants before Christ.

Matt 11:11 Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is.

I don't even think that all who call themselves "christians" are really Christians (Matt 7:21-23) .

There are only
two types
two sets
two races of people
on all the Earth
the children of the devil and the children of God.

True or false?

Tares and the good seed. So, yes some are just filler sent by the Adversary to drag us down.

You do the deeds of your father.

True or false?