What is the Biblical view of hell?

[otseng]

The concept of Hell is one of the many unmarketable, embarrassingly unbelievable religious concepts that has been recently swept under the altar in the severely diluted quasi-belief system that passes for Christianity in certain circles.

In fact, I think this is why Christianity invented eternal punishment in hell. They started to realize that just plain dying wouldn't be compelling. So instead they invented the concept of "Everlasting Punishment" for those who refuse to comply.

Questions for debate:
What is the Biblical view of hell?
What concepts do we have of hell that are not in the Bible?

[JehovahsWitness]

Upon our death ...we sleep in either scenario - since


a) the dead are conscious of nothing (Ecc 9:5; 9:10; Psalm 6:5) and since
b) the dead - including the dead in Christ - are described as having fallen asleep (1 Thess 4:15, 16; 1 Corinth 15:6, 18, John 11:11-14).


We sleep until the resurrection (the first resurrection for those who are in Christ; the second resurrection for everyone else).

So are you saying that dead people are "asleep" (a euphemism for dead because they they know nothing and are unconscious and unable to think feel or converse)?

But that God has the power and the intention to bring those dead people back to life at which time they will be able to think feel, interact and live - this bringing the formerly dead and inactive people back to life being called a resurrection?




JW

[onewithhim]

Peace to you,




Although some members here will not have seen it, for anyone else (if interested), the following post lists several passages which show that the physical is not all there is to us (mankind); and that we do not cease to exist upon our deaths (we sleep, yes, but we do not cease to exist).


viewtopic.php?p=973678#973678



Peace again to you all,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

The only way we could say that we don't cease to exist is to say that God remembers every detail of us in His mind, and will cause our resurrection when the time comes for Him to empower Jesus to bring all the dead out of their graves. (John 5:28)

[brianbbs67]

God's breath is what animates us. God said His breath will not remain with man forever. Man's days were reduced to 120 years Maximum after Noah(there are out lieers). So, really we(our consciousness ) are product of God giving a part of Himself to us to make us an individual. Our job is to make sure, thru following God, that we continue to exist. Because it is apparent from scripture not all conscienceness will survive. Really this existence seems to be about will our conscience survive judgement. Or be returned from whence it came. Energy can only be transformed.

[onewithhim]

God's breath is what animates us. God said His breath will not remain with man forever. Man's days were reduced to 120 years Maximum after Noah(there are out lieers). So, really we(our consciousness ) are product of God giving a part of Himself to us to make us an individual. Our job is to make sure, thru following God, that we continue to exist. Because it is apparent from scripture not all conscienceness will survive. Really this existence seems to be about will our conscience survive judgement. Or be returned from whence it came. Energy can only be transformed.

I don't quite get your points.
Where did God say that His breath would not remain with man forever?
Perhaps your understanding of 120 years needs some adjustment. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think God meant that mankind had 120 years to live, from the point He was speaking to Noah, until He would cause the Flood. He couldn't have meant that after the Flood humans would only live up to 120 years, because Noah himself lived to 950 years, and I believe one of his grandchildren (Arpachshad) lived to 403 years. Great grandson Shelah lived to 403 years also, and Shelah's son Eber lived to 430.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 464 by onewithhim]

Genesis 6:3 JPS The LORD said, "my breath shall not abide in man forever, since he too is flesh; let the days allowed him be 120 years."

It was right before the flood after Nephilim appeared. I did say there were outliers to this decree.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Upon our death ...we sleep in either scenario - since


a) the dead are conscious of nothing (Ecc 9:5; 9:10; Psalm 6:5) and since
b) the dead - including the dead in Christ - are described as having fallen asleep (1 Thess 4:15, 16; 1 Corinth 15:6, 18, John 11:11-14).


We sleep until the resurrection (the first resurrection for those who are in Christ; the second resurrection for everyone else).

So are you saying that dead people are "asleep" (a euphemism for dead because they they know nothing and are unconscious and unable to think feel or converse)?

Yes, the dead are sleeping, as Christ described Lazarus as having fallen asleep. Paul also refers to the dead as sleeping.

Sleep may be a euphemism for (the first) death, but people who are sleeping do not cease to exist.

The second death on the other hand is complete destruction (from fire). Anyone who recieves the judgment of the second death DOES cease to exist. There is nothing left of the person that could even BE resurrected.

But that God has the power and the intention to bring those dead people back to life at which time they will be able to think feel, interact and live - this bringing the formerly dead and inactive people back to life being called a resurrection?

Yes. (Well, Christ also has that power, He is the Resurrection and the Life, He called Simon Lazarus back to life. Simon Lazarus would have heard His voice and 'awoken'.)


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes, the dead are sleeping, as Christ described Lazarus as having fallen asleep. ... Sleep may be a euphemism for (the first) death, but people who are sleeping do not cease to exist.

...Anyone who recieves the judgment of the second death DOES cease to exist.

So apart from one condition is permanent and the other temporary, what in real terms is different between the two?

One you say ceases to exist, the other does not cease to exist, so the two must be different substantially different in some way otherwise the terms are (existence/inexistsnce) are meaningless. Does the first still have some kind of body, is he breathing? Dreaming? Can he be located and moved from one location to another (in either realm)? What part of the person in the first death exists that in the second death doesn't exist (thus distinguishing between the two)?



JW

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 467 by JehovahsWitness]

Tam can answer you for herself. This is what I believe. Death comes early in the bible. "do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. For the day you eat of it you will surely die." Question: Adam and Eve did not die that day, did they? But they died much later which could have been avoided by listening to God. In other words, they were not meant to be perishable when created but became that way due to disobedience. The were dead men walking.

Nephesh is the hebrew for soul. It simply means living being, not some spirit inside a living being. Nephesh is composed of the hebrew words for dirt(from whence man came) and God's breath or spirit. When we die we return to dirt and the spirit/breath returns to God. God seems to store that consciousness till the first or second resurrection. Those in the faith are resurrected first and are eternal and reign with Christ 1000 years and more thereafter.

The second resurrection is of the evil, wicked and unbelievers. They are alive then, at judgement , and if their name is not in the book pf life they are tossed into the lake of fire and purified. They, their consciousness exists no more. The spirit/breath returns to God. There is no eternal torment you just don't exist anymore.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 464 by onewithhim]

Genesis 6:3 JPS The LORD said, "my breath shall not abide in man forever, since he too is flesh; let the days allowed him be 120 years."

It was right before the flood after Nephilim appeared. I did say there were outliers to this decree.

Doesn't this bear out my point that God would take his breath away from man when he brought the Flood? That is what happened to everyone but Noah and his family when the earth was inundated with water. After that Noah and his grandsons lived many hundreds of years.

What are "outliers"?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 467 by JehovahsWitness]

Tam can answer you for herself. This is what I believe. Death comes early in the bible. "do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. For the day you eat of it you will surely die." Question: Adam and Eve did not die that day, did they? But they died much later which could have been avoided by listening to God. In other words, they were not meant to be perishable when created but became that way due to disobedience. The were dead men walking.

Nephesh is the hebrew for soul. It simply means living being, not some spirit inside a living being. Nephesh is composed of the hebrew words for dirt(from whence man came) and God's breath or spirit. When we die we return to dirt and the spirit/breath returns to God. God seems to store that consciousness till the first or second resurrection. Those in the faith are resurrected first and are eternal and reign with Christ 1000 years and more thereafter.

The second resurrection is of the evil, wicked and unbelievers. They are alive then, at judgement , and if their name is not in the book pf life they are tossed into the lake of fire and purified. They, their consciousness exists no more. The spirit/breath returns to God. There is no eternal torment you just don't exist anymore.

You've got that down pretty well. However, the second resurrection refers to ALL of the dead, other than Christ's co-rulers who are with him in heaven. The evil people who died at Armageddon will not be resurrected. Why would God annihilate them only to bring them back again?

The "lake of fire" doesn't mean a purification. I don't know where that idea comes from, but when something is thrown into the lake of fire, it no longer exists. You will notice that "death and hell (the grave) are cast into the lake of fire." What "purification" would there be concerning these two things? It obviously means that they are completely destroyed.

You are totally right, though, when you say that "there is no eternal torment, you just don't exist anymore."