What proves Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfill prophecies

[Avoice]

What proof can anyone give that Jesus is the Messiah? Did he fulfull prophecies? If so, what orophecy and how did he fulfill it? Riding into into Jeusalem on an ass proves nothing. Many rode into Jerusalem on an ass. I too could ride in to Jerusalem on an ass. What else ya' got?

Needless to say any evidence MUST be supported by the Hebrew Scriptures

[polonius]

Prophecies the Messiah must fulfill.



(1) Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

(2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

(3)Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

(4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world " on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

Did Jesus fulfill these fulfill these of not? Even one omission disqualifies him as the Messiah.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 2 by Checkpoint]

Isaiah 53 is about me.

Your reasoning is obsurd. Because he said it was about him you believe it. But I said it was about me. Why do you believe Jesus and not me?

No, 53 isn't about me. Why do you believe what he says is the truth?

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 17 by Elijah John]

It is rediculous.

The Hebrew Scriptures must uphold every claim by the church.

The Christian testament can not prove its theology is true by quoting itself.
It would be like me saying blue and yellow make white when mixed together. Then to prove its true I provide the proof of my claim by using a book I wrote. Of course MY book will say it will produce the color white. Buuuut ...we need to go to the color wheel that was established long before I wrote my book. Before my book came along all the painters upheld the color wheel as true. And still do uphokd it as true. So anyone who says blue and yellow make green they speak the truth. If not, then they aren't being truthful.

The Hebrew Scriptures is the guage by which Christianity must be measured.

To say the Hebrew scriptures can't use itself as proof is totally rediculous . IT IS THE ROOT. It determines what is true.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 21 by JehovahsWitness]

I'm not asking for scriptures in the Hebrew Scriptures that outline how Jesus fulfilled prophecies in the Hebrew scriptures.

Here is what I'm asking.

EXAMPLE:

The writer of Mathew states Jesus fulfilled the prophecy foretold in the Hebrew Scriptures, saying: out of Egypt I called my son. How did Jesus fulfill that prophecy? The Christian testament says by Jesus returning to Israel after being in Egypt with his mom and Joseph fulfilled a prophecy.

IS THAT TRUE? IS THIS A FULFILLED PROPHECY?

If you look at any annotated Christian Bible there will be a footnote next to this claim. It will give you the passage in the Hebrew Scriptures that it is referring to. It tells you it comes from Hosea 11.

DID YOU EVER BOTHER TO CHECK TO SEE WHETHER JESUS FULFILLED IT?

WHEN YOU READ HOSEA 11 YOU WILL FIND OUT THAT ITS NOT EVEN A PROPHECY AT ALL.
SO WHAT IS IT?
WHO IS THE SON THAT GOD CALLED OUT OF EGYPT? It is Israel
WHEN WAS IT? In the first century of the Christian era? NO...GOD IS TALKING ABOUT THE THE EXODUS DURING THE TIME OF PHARAOH.


PROPHECY FULFILLED? The religion you uphold says it is. Are you going to uphold it too?

Is it about Israel and the days of the exodus?

Or is it about Jesus in the first century?

Is it even a prophecy?

Defend the church claim by explaining how (1) it's a prophecy and (2) how it's about jesus

[bluegreenearth]

All Christian claims of fulfilled prophesy are post-hoc rationalizations which anyone can do for almost any sufficiently ambiguous or vague prediction. Early Christians were keenly aware of the Old Testament Messiah prophesies and could deliberately facilitate the fulfillment of those predictions without the need for divine intervention. For example, someone could predict that a person named John will become a future President of the United States and lead the country through an economic downturn. At some point in the future, someone named John who was raised to believe that prediction was true could be motivated to run for office out of a desire to fulfill the prediction. Since the name "John" is fairly common, it isn't very unreasonable to expect a future American President will have "John" as his first name. Economic downturns happen fairly often as well, and it wouldn't be that difficult to interpret some unspecified future event as an economic downturn during any President's administration. Once these events have come to pass, it would be relatively easy for some future person to mistakenly look back upon President John's administration as having fulfilled a prophesy. So, a post-hoc rationalization cannot function as evidence to support the claim that a prophesy was fulfilled.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 44 by Avoice]

So you will accept passages from the gospels or the Christian scriptures *IF* they represent a record of Jesus actions fulfilling prophecies in the HEBREW bible?

Is that what you are saying?



JW

[PinSeeker]

Prophecies the Messiah must fulfill.

(1) Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

Jesus Himself IS the cornerstone of the Temple, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom we also are being built together. It is being built now, and will be completed at His return (Ephesians 2).

(2) Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

We must first understand who Jews are and what Israel is.

ISRAEL
Israel -- God's Israel -- is not a physical country but rather a people. And this nation (again, not a physical nation but a people) will eventually cover the whole earth and number as the stars. God's Israel is not a tiny country on the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea.

JEWS
True Jews, as Paul writes in Romans 2:28-29, are not just ethnic Jews but rather all believers, Jew and Gentile, in Christ (Romans 2). Paul tells us further in Galatians 3 that we are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, and that for all those who are baptized into Christ have been clothed with Christ, and that there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; that we are all one in Christ Jesus, and that if we belong to Christ, then we are Abrahams descendants, heirs according to promise. In this way, all believers are True Jews.

(3)Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

Sure. That's what will happen when Jesus returns. Everlasting joy will be on our heads, and sorrow and sighing will flee away (Isaiah 35).

(4) Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world " on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).

Yep. See above.

Did Jesus fulfill these fulfill these of not? Even one omission disqualifies him as the Messiah.

Only in part now, but in full soon (when He returns).

Grace and peace to you, Polonius.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 47 by PinSeeker]

So a person can make any prophesy work, when one is at liberty to re-define terms. And it seems that is what Paul has done here.

"True Jews" now equal "true believers"? What about ethnic and religious Jews who do not believe that Jesus is either God incarnate or the Messiah? Most Jews do not even believe Jesus was a good teacher or Rabbi. Certainly not even a prophet.

Do they cease to be "true Jews" if the do not believe Christian doctrine?

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 47 by PinSeeker]

So a person can make any prophesy work, when one is at liberty to re-define terms. And it seems that is what Paul has done here.

"True Jews" now equal "true believers"? What about ethnic and religious Jews who do not believe that Jesus is either God incarnate or the Messiah? Most Jews do not even believe Jesus was a good teacher or Rabbi. Certainly not even a prophet.

Do they cease to be "true Jews" if the do not believe Christian doctrine?

Paul's words work once you realize they(gentiles) were converting to the Hebrew religion. Israel was always a mixed multitude and welcomed converts. Christ called Israel(gentiles now) back to Torah(God) and called out Judah for their traditions which negated it. Jesus never made one Christian, not one.

Paul spells this out in Ephs. 2:12. They were welcome into Israel and it covenants, not the non-existent at the time Christian church.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 46 by JehovahsWitness]

I am saying that the Christian testament says Jesus fulfilled prophecies that are written in the Hebrew scriptures .

I'm asking YOU to show me how (two examples below) the following are a fulfillment of prophecies.

The Christian testament claims that Heroes killing of babies was foretold. Then it quotes the Hebrew Scriptures about Rachel weeping for her children etc.
-----Explain how what is quoted in the Hebrew Bible is about Herod

The Christian testament claims that when Mary, Joseph and Jesus returned from Egypt it was a fulfillment of prophecy foretold in the Hebrew Bible. It refers to the passage that reads:
Out Of Egypt I called my son.
--------Explain how the



Here's a few: