Genesis 18:1-2 Trinity

[Wootah]

18 The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2 Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

Translation: Abraham looked up and saw God as three men and he bowed down.

Surely Christians can use this as evidence for the trinity?

[marco]

[Replying to post 4 by marco]

Gen. 18:22 'Jehovah' stayed with Abraham while the other two (both angels - see 19:1) went to Sodom.

Yes, we can take that as an interpretation. Here's a section of the report:


and lo, three men stood by him …..
7 And Abraham ran to the beasts, and took a tender and good calf, and gave it to the servant, who hasted to make it ready. 8 And he took butter and milk, and the calf which he had prepared, and set before them, and stood himself by them under the tree: and [g]they did eat...….
15 But Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not: for she was afraid. And he said, It is not so: for thou laughedst.
16 ¶ Afterward, the men did rise up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way...….
17 And the [l]Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do,


Three MEN.
gods, angels, demons?
They allowed Abraham to kill a calf and they ate it. This is more in accord with a story about human visitors but we can accept the writers believed that gods ate human food. The same sort of story occurs in Greek mythology.

It is utterly silly and bad fictional writing to have the Lord, if that's who he was, argue "You did so! You laughed." I suppose a desert audience would think it's fine for gods to enter petty arguments. The entire scenario is clearly fiction. If proof of this were needed further, take God's reported thoughts:

"Shall I hide from Abraham ...." It would be hard to descend further into the ludicrous. But I suppose Jehovah could have been identified as the one with the black sandals and the red ribbon in his hair. That would be no sillier than what we have.


So, yes, we can take it that a couple of "angels" walked to Sodom and were invited to have carnal relations with Lot's daughters. And this is a HOLY book!


Taking the passage as meaning three persons represented the Lord and dismissing the details as figurative fiction, there is some gravity restored. Not much.

[JehovahsWitness]

.... verse 3 and 4 support the notion that all 3 men are YHWH.

How do those verses do that? Could you explain in one or more complete sentences?

[marco]

.... verse 3 and 4 support the notion that all 3 men are YHWH.

How do those verses do that? Could you explain in one or more complete sentences?

The passage is unclear. Jehovah is not identified as man 1, 2 or 3 - but it seems all three are fed with equal reverence, three persons but one object of respect. The introduction of a supernatural trinity, witnessed by Abraham, certainly strengthens the case for the Trinity later. Given that Jehovah would have been aware of possible future disputes about the threeness of God, it would have been remiss of him to appear here in triple form. That woldl smack of either deliberate deception or perhaps verification that there is indeed a Trinity. It's a good point.

[JehovahsWitness]

.... it seems all three are fed with equal reverence, three persons but one object of respect.

Can you explain this more. What in the verses indicate that all three individuals were equal to Almighty God in rank, power and authority? What specifically in Abraham's treatment of them, would be inappropriate if they were say, ... three angels or three individuals that were superior to Him in every way but not all equal in rank, power, position, influence experience age and authority ?

one object of respect What does this even mean? How is it demonstrated in the verse as opposed to three different individuals all treated with respect? What in the verses makes his feeding them all "one object"?



JW

[PinSeeker]

The facts are thus:

• * There are three men.
  
  * Even though there are three men, they are referred to by Moses and by Abraham himself as one.
  
  * Even thought Abraham is fully cognizant of the fact that there are three men, he speaks to them as one.
  
  • In verse 3, why does he not say "My Lords..." (plural) but instead, "My Lord..." (singular)? And, after Abraham refers to the three as one several times, he recognizes the fact that there are three distinct persons by saying "yourselves" but then reverts back to referring to the three as one ("that you may go on, since you have visited your servant").
  
  * Verse 22 says "the men turned away," not "two of the men turned away...", and also refers to all three collectively as LORD (Yahweh).

A question, rhetorical in nature, really:

Why did it take three men, obviously equal in stature, to deliver the message to Abraham? You know, assuming the suggestion that Abraham had "triple vision" is ridiculous (which it is), why not just one?

[JehovahsWitness]

* Even though there are three men, they are referred to by Moses and by Abraham himself as one.

Could you please provide a Chapter and verse reference for this point ?

Abraham refers to the three as one several times

ditto

[JehovahsWitness]

In verse 3, why does he not say "My Lords..." (plural) but instead, "My Lord..." (singular)?

Could it not be because he is addressing one of the three in particular?

.... [Abraham] reverts back to referring to the three as one ("that you may go on, since you have visited your servant"...

ditto

[PinSeeker]

* Even though there are three men, they are referred to by Moses and by Abraham himself as one.

Could you please provide a Chapter and verse reference for this point ?

I did.

• In verse 3, why does he not say "My Lords..." (plural) but instead, "My Lord..." (singular)?

Could it not be because he is addressing one of the three in particular?

If one contorts Genesis 18 into something other than what it is, yes.

[JehovahsWitness]

Verse 22 says "the men turned away," not "two of the men turned away...", and also refers to all three collectively as LORD (Yahweh)

GENESIS 18:22

Then the men left from there and went toward Sodʹom, but Jehovah remained with Abraham. Then Abraham approached and said: “Will you really sweep away the righteous with the wicked? - NWT

Can you clarify the point you think this verse is making regarding a possible Trinitarian reading?

[JehovahsWitness]

* Even though there are three men, they are referred to by Moses and by Abraham himself as one.

Could you please provide a Chapter and verse reference for this point ?

I did.

Would you be so kind as remind me which chapter and verse it was?

JW