Most religious folk do no view the U.S. Constitution to be the protector of all the religions, and/or other non-violent beliefs. For the most part they feel their religion (and their God) is superior to our government even though without our Constitution’s Freedom of Religion clause, all would be chaos among the many different faiths.
[strike] God, Country, fellow man [/strike]should be: America, God, fellow man.
Would anyone argue that our Constitution, mimicked by many nations of the world, would not protect the rights of its citizens from others who worship differently (or who don’t worship at all)?
In other words, would anyone deny that it is the U.S. Constitution that keeps religions from tearing one another apart in America?
Please refrain from arguing that the Freedom of Religion clause is to keep the government’s nose out of religion’s business (for those who feel that way, I refer you to view Jefferson-Madison correspondence).
The U.S. Constitution protects all religions
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Re: The U.S. Constitution protects all religions
Post #2Please support this claim.2Dbunk wrote: Most religious folk do no view the U.S. Constitution to be the protector of all the religions, and/or other non-violent beliefs.
Virtually everyone I have met in real life and (I think) every American theist currently posting on this board holds that the U.S Constitution protects all religious beliefs that do not put people in danger. I find your assessment of “religious folks� to have no basis in fact.
The wording of this sentence is hard to follow, so I will be as direct as possible: The Constitution provides protection for all religious beliefs and practices that do not endanger anyone, and protects the right to refrain from all religious beliefs and practices. The overwhelming majority of Christian on this site and in the country on the whole support this being a part of the Constitution. Personally, I think that the five rights protected in the 1st Amendment make America’s most important contribution to modern political thought.2Dbunk wrote: Would anyone argue that our Constitution, mimicked by many nations of the world, would not protect the rights of its citizens from others who worship differently (or who don’t worship at all)?
Yes, I absolutely deny that and I consider it a ridiculous assertion.2Dbunk wrote: In other words, would anyone deny that it is the U.S. Constitution that keeps religions from tearing one another apart in America?
Understand that you might believe. Believe that you might understand. –Augustine of Hippo
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Re: The U.S. Constitution protects all religions
Post #3Emphasis MINE2Dbunk wrote:
...would anyone deny that it is the U.S. Constitution that keeps religions from tearing one another apart in America?
- You haven't clarified what you mean by "tearing one another apart".* If you mean it's members engaging in criminal activities such as the incitement to violence against non members then I suppose America has laws that protect its citizens against such actions, so I would reject this suggestion (if that is what is meant).
If you are suggesting there is some kind of religious unity that is maintained between all the different faiths in America because of the US Constitution, a unity which would in its absence disintigrate, I think this is a ridiculous suggestion that would need to be demonstrated.
Would anyone argue that our Constitution, mimicked by many nations of the world, would not protect the rights of its citizens from others who worship differently (or who don’t worship at all)?
- Most constitutions in democratic societies do indeed propound the rights of its citizens to freely practise (or refrain from practising) the religion of their choice without fear if reprisal or violence (if that is what you mean), although Jehovah's Witnesses in RUSSIA ( that claims to guarantee such rights) are finding this not to be the case.
- I am far from a expert on US constitutional law, and I am not American but my understanding is their law doesn't actively protect any religion it simply refrains from making any laws regarding religious practice. As such it, in theory "protects" the rights of its citizens to practise their religion as they choose without interference from the State.
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"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Re: The U.S. Constitution protects all religions
Post #4I will re-phrase: Too many religious folk do not view the U.S. Constitution to be the ultimate protector of all the religions, and/or other non-violent beliefs.
I know that there are Christians who put God before country. Are you one of them?Virtually everyone I have met in real life and (I think) every American theist currently posting on this board holds that the U.S Constitution protects all religious beliefs that do not put people in danger. I find your assessment of “religious folks� to have no basis in fact.
Then you need to review your "World History" that is replete with internecine conflicts in most countries prior to America's Constitution. The dominant religion in any one of these countries combined with the governing authority to discourage by varying means to suppress or destroy other lesser religions. America broke away from that vicious double-edged system of governance.2Dbunk wrote: In other words, would anyone deny that it is the U.S. Constitution that keeps religions from tearing one another apart in America?
Again, review your history.Yes, I absolutely deny that and I consider it a ridiculous assertion.
What good is truth if its value is not more than unproven, handed-down faith?
One believes things because one is conditioned to believe them. -Aldous Huxley
Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.
One believes things because one is conditioned to believe them. -Aldous Huxley
Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.
Re: The U.S. Constitution protects all religions
Post #5Probably I should have said persecution instead of tearing apart, but in too many cases in history it's the same meaning.JehovahsWitness wrote:Emphasis MINE2Dbunk wrote:
...would anyone deny that it is the U.S. Constitution that keeps religions from tearing one another apart in America?
- You haven't clarified what you mean by "tearing one another apart".* If you mean it's members engaging in criminal activities such as the incitement to violence against non members then I suppose America has laws that protect its citizens against such actions, so I would reject this suggestion (if that is what is meant).
I think it is naïve to believe my assertion to be "ridiculous." All one needs to do is review the histories of the nations prior tp 1787 for examples of how the different religions treated one another.If you are suggesting there is some kind of religious unity that is maintained between all the different faiths in America because of the US Constitution, a unity which would in its absence disintigrate, I think this is a ridiculous suggestion that would need to be demonstrated.[/list]* perhaps you can clarify what you mean by "tearing one another apart".
YES, and those nations you speak of eventually revised their constitutions to include freedom of religion (that's EXACTLY what I mean).list]Most constitutions in democratic societies do indeed propound the rights of its citizens to freely practise (or refrain from practising) the religion of their choice without fear if reprisal or violence (if that is what you mean), although Jehovah's Witnesses in RUSSIA ( that claims to guarantee such rights) are finding this not to be the case.[/list]
Of course the U.S. is a protector of any violence shown to any one of the many religions. It is now a "hate crime" to desecrate another's church or cemetery in the United States.The Protection of Religion
- I am far from a expert on US constitutional law, and I am not American but my understanding is their law doesn't actively protect any religion it simply refrains from making any laws regarding religious practice. As such it, in theory "protects" the rights of its citizens to practise their religion as they choose without interference from the State.
Your last sentence is what I warned against in the OP. Please review correspondence between Madison and Jefferson, the authors of the Constitution's Freedom of Religion clause. It is not a one way wall of separation as many Christian fundamentalists claim -- but like ALL walls, it separates in both directions!
What good is truth if its value is not more than unproven, handed-down faith?
One believes things because one is conditioned to believe them. -Aldous Huxley
Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.
One believes things because one is conditioned to believe them. -Aldous Huxley
Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.
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Re: The U.S. Constitution protects all religions
Post #6Ok so your question is2Dbunk wrote:
Probably I should have said persecution instead of tearing apart,
..would anyone deny that it is the U.S. Constitution that keeps religions from [strike]tearing one another apart [/strike] persecuting each other in America?
Hmmm, if there was no Constitution, would there be more persecution of one religion against another?
- Probably yes.
- Probably no.
So.... was there a greater point you wanted to make based on that? That the US Constitution is bad and should be abolished? That religion is barbaric and should be abolished? That abolishment is abolishing and should be abolished?....
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
Re: The U.S. Constitution protects all religions
Post #7More than probably!JehovahsWitness wrote:Ok so your question is2Dbunk wrote:
Probably I should have said persecution instead of tearing apart,
..would anyone deny that it is the U.S. Constitution that keeps religions from [strike]tearing one another apart [/strike] persecuting each other in America?
Hmmm, if there was no Constitution, would there be more persecution of one religion against another?
- Probably yes.
Of course not -- there would remain one dominant religion, to uphold and validate the governing body (usually a monarchy). Other religions would be persecuted or suppressed. At least that is the way most of our founding fathers designed to avoid.Would they all ultimately wipe each other out of existence?
- Probably no.
[/quote]So.... was there a greater point you wanted to make based on that? That the US Constitution is bad and should be abolished? That religion is barbaric and should be abolished? That abolishment is abolishing and should be abolished?....
I think you are missing the point. Of course the US Constitution should not be abolished; religion is to every person what it is and as such could not be abolished -- in accordance WITH the Constitution. In fact, I have not mentioned the word "abolish," sir.
What good is truth if its value is not more than unproven, handed-down faith?
One believes things because one is conditioned to believe them. -Aldous Huxley
Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.
One believes things because one is conditioned to believe them. -Aldous Huxley
Fear within the Religious will always be with them ... as long as they are fearful of death.
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Re: The U.S. Constitution protects all religions
Post #8.
Exactly. The fusion of government and religion is what happened in the Roman empire when it made use of (and perhaps made) Christianity as a means of controlling the masses.2Dbunk wrote: Of course not -- there would remain one dominant religion, to uphold and validate the governing body (usually a monarchy). Other religions would be persecuted or suppressed. At least that is the way most of our founding fathers designed to avoid.
.
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