According to the tales, Jesus gave up a weekend.

[Zzyzx]

.
According to the tales, Jesus gave up a weekend. What’s the big deal?

What is the ‘sacrifice’ in a supposedly eternal being giving up a weekend being ‘dead’?

An 'omnipotent god' (or part thereof, or whatever is claimed) would presumably know that the 'death' was extremely temporary -- just a few hours (less than 48 according to the tale).

[JehovahsWitness]

Are you saying that Jesus was not ...invited to feasts and parties by wealthy people? That he was not adored by people and treated like a celebrity? ...Jesus set the standard for double standards.

Are you suggesting any of these things violated a law or principle he taught? If so, which one(s)? If not, how can he be accused of hypocrisy?

We know that he was invited to the odd wedding feast ....

Attending the occaasional wedding, O the shock the horror!!

....and he did get to hang out with wealthy tax collectors, living it up.

Emphasis MINE

You forgot prostitutes, Jesus also associated with prostitutes and varous people of ill repute for sure. Now, by "living it up" are you suggesting Jesus enjoyed life with a balanced outlook on the good things it had to offer and did not segregate himself from those that might need his help, Or are you suggesting Jesus condoned, profited and engaged in immoral or corrupt behaviour ?


If the latter, evidence please

[JehovahsWitness]

Just look at the story of the woman who poured very expensive perfume on Jesus. He quite clearly put hmself above the poor. He clearly saw himself as more worthy of lavish attention and gifts.

What is hypocritical in stating the truth? Jesus *is* above the poor. He is also above the rich. Indeed apart from Jehovah (YHWH) Jesus is better than any individual than has ever lived and most worthy of every lavish gift and he knew it! What he did not do is ...

• ask for lavish gifts (or anything) in return for his services,
• make his superiority the central theme of his teaching
• amass material wealth and property through his ministry
• treat the poor or the misfortunate with contempt

Jesus never taught giving or accepting whether little or much to him (or anyone) is a sin so he cannot be accused of hypocrisy for accepting anything.

"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me."

This is again simply a statement of truth. No human society has or will ever successfully eliminate poverty. Jesus knew he would be dead before the end of the week.

Now if you are reading more into the above than I have outlined, maybe you can find words (rather than the huffing, and puffing of the "outrage that knows no name"...) to express why you see hypocrisy in Jesus words or actions.





JW

[JehovahsWitness]

I wonder what happened to that gold that Jesus was given as a baby.

Are you suggesting Jesus should somehow be blamed for something his parents did while he was a baby?!


JW

[Willum]

[Replying to post 73 by OnceConvinced]

I wonder how much money Jesus was given when he told people to give up their wealth? Where did it end up?

Are you suggesting Jesus should somehow be blamed for something he or his apostles did while he was an adult?

That he might have been a typical street preacher, collect in alms for selling snake oil?
It is interesting that about this point in history people were realizing religion was a commodity,

[1213]

…
This is an odd accusation given that I pointed out the relevance of Jesus' words. I displayed the fact that Jesus was not referring to Christian leaders as you implied.
…

Jesus was saying how his disciples should live. His disciples are called Christians. Christian leaders are supposedly also Christians.

[1213]

…Are you saying that Jesus was not lavished with expensive gifts? That he was not invited to feasts and parties by wealthy people? That he was not adored by people and treated like a celebrity? ….

I don’t think it matters what I say, I was not there. I think it would be better to hear what the Bible says.

[Tcg]

…
This is an odd accusation given that I pointed out the relevance of Jesus' words. I displayed the fact that Jesus was not referring to Christian leaders as you implied.
…

Jesus was saying how his disciples should live. His disciples are called Christians. Christian leaders are supposedly also Christians.

You're attempting once again to change the subject. This is what we are discussing:

What makes you to think it is not also said for the leaders? Also, the whole idea of Christian leaders is problematic, because:

What is even more problematic is that the passage you provided is not about Christian leaders. For some reason you failed to take note of the verses that clarify who Jesus' warning referenced:

• Matthew 23:1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
  
  <bolding mine>

You attempted to use Matthew 23:4-12 to support your point about Christian leaders. As I clearly displayed above, Matthew 23:4-12 is not about Christian leaders.

Your second attempt to distract attention from your mistake is noted.


Tcg

[tam]

Peace to you!

[Replying to post 73 by OnceConvinced]

And what were his words when that woman wasted all that alabastar oil by pouring it over him?

“This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor.�

Err no. Jesus didn't say that. The disciples said that. What did Jesus say?

"The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me."

In addition to what has already been said, something that seems to be overlooked here is the fact that Christ spoke (the truth, yes, but also...) in defense of a woman who was being rebuked for doing something out of her love for Christ.


The perfume belonged to her; she was free to do with it as she wished. She did not use it on herself; she used it on Christ, out of love for Him. For this, Judas (a disciple) rebuked her.


Christ defended her against that unjust rebuke. She had done a beautiful thing - that is simply the truth. She did not deserve to be rebuked or shamed for her beautiful deed





Peace to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Willum]

[Replying to post 88 by tam]

That's right, not only did he only give up a weekend, but he wastefully used perfume on his feet.
I wonder if we will find he used divine magic so the nails didn't hurt, or divine strength to carry the cross, AND LOOK Simon of Cyrene carried it for him! perhaps God violated Simon of Cyrene's free will to manipulate him to do that!

Wouldn't it be funny if we found that God was perfect and omnipotent and so only suffered what he desired to? We might find God was a practical hedonist.

It would no longer surprise me.

Thanks Tam! good point!

[JehovahsWitness]

I wonder how much money Jesus was given when he told people to give up their wealth? Where did it end up?

WAS JESUS A GREEDY HYPOCRITE?

• Some accuse Jesus of hypocrisy on the basis that he is reported to have accepted money and gifts. In reality no accusation of hypocrisy can be levied against him because not only did Jesus never condemned working for money, or private ownership, he also did not condemn the acceptance of money or gifts. What he did condemn is greed, the neglect of spiritual endeavors and the amassing of wealth.

WEALTH

An abundance of valuable material possessions or resources.

• There is absolutely no indication in scripture Jesus amassed more than he needed to continue to conduct his ministry. WEALTH is basically having more than one needs to survive, having an "abundance ". This was not the case for Jesus, actually, on one occassion he explained that leading the life he did, he didn't even have his own house. Thus while he evidently accepted gifts of gratitude and contributions towards his, and his disciples needs, he didnt become a "wealthy" man. While he may have accepted the hospitality of some wealthy individuals, Jesus is never reported as using those connections to obtain Jewels, privileges or property. On the at least two occassions he accepted his feet and hair being anointed with expensive oils* from his followers, we note on neither occassions is Jesus recorded as attempting to keep and resell any of the valuable oil to obtain monetary gain or profit. He did have at least one coat of fine quality but there are no "Imelda Marcos" style reports of him being known for having vast collections of expensive garb. Jesus commended Zacchaeus the wealthy tax collector for his resolution to give back his ill gotten gains to those he (Zacchaeus) had extorted. (We note he did NOT request a generous contribution (Roman Catholic style) from Zacchaeus, so Jesus could petition God on his behalf). Indeed the only person that is depicted as seeking to profit materially from his ministry was Judas Iscariot, whom Jesus would eventually designate as "The son of destruction "
  
  * It should be noted that washing and pouring some kind of oil lotions on the feet of guest was common etiquette at the time

It is a GROSS misrepresentation of the Jesus of the gospels to imply he was a greedy, money grabbing hypocrite that lived a luxurious life of ease

• By far the majority of his followers were poor working class folk whose homes would have consisted of one maybe two rooms that they shared with the family's domestic animals. The picture some attempt to draw ofJesus traveling and living in the lap of luxury has little to do with the Jesus of the gospels travelling by foot (It appears he may not even have had his own donkey - a donkey was the working man's "Volkswagen" being a modest means of transport), along the dusty roads of Palestine (compare John chapter 4) and sleeping either in the open or in the humble lodgings of those that recognised him as a Prophet. In short given the bulk of his followers, wealthy hosts would have been the exception rather than the rule.

YOU RECEIVED FREE GIVE FREE!

• Jesus when commissioning his own disciples told them "You recieved free, give free" meaning they were not to charge for their services as Christian ministers; and Jesus lived by this principle. Jesus never charged for his teaching or miracles. By far the majority of his followers were in fact, poor people anyway with little or nothing to offer by way of material gifts. We recall he healed a woman who had spent all her money seeking a cure for her ailment without success, he healed the blind, the deaf and beggars and lepers, few of whom would have been in a position to give him anything but their gratitude and praise for his selfless actions. And how much money did he ask for before bringing Jairus 12 year old daughter back from the dead or raising a widows only son?

CONCLUSION So we can rightly ask, from where come these groundless aspertions on the character of Jesus of Nazareth? What basis the accusation or innuendo of profiteering? Surely from nothing in the gospel accounts themselves but rather the figments of the imagination of those that can find nothing concrete in the text that present us with a friend of the poor, a generous humble man of the people who is not at any point accused, even by his enemies, of amassing material wealth or riches .

RELATED POSTS

Was Jesus immodest, rude, short tempered, gay and ugly?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 004#977004