God's violent ways

[OnceConvinced]

The god of the bible tends do deal with sin and evil in very violent ways. Ie, wiping out cities, sending floods, ordering violent deaths, ordering the slaying of animals for sacrifices, sending curses and plagues, etc.

Can you point out any instances in the bible where God deals with sin and evil in non-violent ways?

And I mean God here. Not Jesus.
And there are times God showed mercy and didn't deal with the sin and evil, sure. But when he did, were there non-violent methods used?

[1213]

The study I presented showed that 70% of the women in that study who got abortions self identified as Christians. That 70% were obviously not against abortion

Maybe so, but I would be interested about what the statistics are of whole group of Christians, not just about them that think it is ok. Surely there is much more Christians than only those who make abortions.

[1213]

Why it is so black and white when it is God who allegedly kills?

Because God is omniscient and omnipotent and we aren't...

But then, if you are not omniscient, how can you know that Gods judgments are not good?

When God kills someone, it's because, out of the infinite possibilities open to God's absolute sovereignty over time and space, He has decided, in His infinite wisdom and compassion, that a dead person is what He most desires.

Sorry, I think there is no intelligent reason to deduce from that, God desires most dead person.

[1213]

Killing someone to put them out of their misery.
Killing someone who is going to cuase the death of someone else. (that might include abortion)
Executions for perpertrators of serious crimes like murder.

In that case, if person who God orders to be killed is unrighteous, and unrighteous person will cause murders, destruction and suffering, then it is ok, if God kills?

[1213]

Satan free run of the place, just as he allowed him to wander the Garden of Eden. And the bible tales tell us how badly that went, don't they?

Badly seems to be quite subjective opinion. It has been said to me here that opinions dont really matter. However, I think this life is not that bad.

Which means you can't put much stock in anything Jesus says or believes. If he was fallible here then he was most likely fallible everywhere else too.

So, if you are fallible in one thing, you are also fallible in everything?

Anyway, it is possible Jesus felt God had rejected him, I think that doesnt mean God rejected him, and I dont think it makes Jesus fallible, the feeling could have been genuine. At that point, when he died, it is possible God was not there. but it doesnt mean God rejected him, because God raised him from the death. Or do you think parents reject their children, if they leave them to home alone for some time?

Interesting thing is that Jesus says

Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?
Matt. 27:46

Usually God is called Yahweh, or I am,but Jesus calls God Eli.

No, he doesn't use those words but it was clearly a bet.

I dont like when people add own meanings to the Bible.

And when the hardening happens because God ends plague, I dont think that is treacherous and evil.

Which is not what the bible says about the hardening of his heart. You've added that in.

Bible clearly tells that pharaohs heart hardened every time plague ended. Every time things were bad, pharaoh was willing to let Jews go. But when thigs got easier, he taught, no they cant go. And that is what it means that his heart was hardened.

So then that means Jesus's death on the cross was redundent wasn't it? God was quite capable of achieving what he set out to do without the need for a violent bloody sacrifice. But he chose the violent and bloody path anyway. That just makes it ten times worse. He ordered the brutal slaughter of his son instead of dealing with the problem of sin in a far less violent and sadistic way, a way that he was quite capable of utilising if he so wished.

People chose to kill Jesus. But it was not a problem, because by dying Jesus could be raised and that gave his disciples the courage to continue after that, without fear of death.

[1213]

[Replying to post 89 by 1213]

According to the Bible, Satan cant do anything without God allowing it, as the book of Job shows.

That makes God complicit in the evil perpetrated by Satan. Are you sure this deity of yours is worthy of worship? By the way, I see the book of Job as another atrocity perpetrated by your God.

I am sure, God is incredibly good, wise, loving and great. But those things seem to be just a matter of opinion. It you think God is not worthy then you think so.

I think allowing freedom doesnt make person complicit. It is sad that world rulers seem to think same way you do, because they are limiting freedom so much. I think persons who are against freedom are not great.

And I think the book of Job is good, because it shows the true nature of Satan and that he doesnt know better than God. I believe God allowed it to happen, because He knew Job can handle it and it will be a good lesson.

[Difflugia]

But then, if you are not omniscient, how can you know that Gods judgments are not good?

Empathy for His victims.

When God kills someone, it's because, out of the infinite possibilities open to God's absolute sovereignty over time and space, He has decided, in His infinite wisdom and compassion, that a dead person is what He most desires.

Sorry, I think there is no intelligent reason to deduce from that, God desires most dead person.

Perhaps you and I have differing ideas about intelligence. As I see it, the situation that you and I have described together is this:

• God is omnipotent and omniscient.
• God has killed someone.
• God didn't want the person to be dead.

The first two come from my statement and you added the third. I'm saying now that those three things cannot simultaneously be true. Any two can, but not all three together.

Perhaps I'm missing something, though. How can all three be true? Or did I somehow mischaracterize the situation?

[Tcg]

The study I presented showed that 70% of the women in that study who got abortions self identified as Christians. That 70% were obviously not against abortion

Maybe so, but I would be interested about what the statistics are of whole group of Christians, not just about them that think it is ok. Surely there is much more Christians than only those who make abortions.

You made this unsupported claim:

• "I said, it is usually Christians (not all Christians) that are against abortion."

Now you are admitting that you have no idea if it is true or not. You have no source to support your claim and are just now expressing an interest in finding out if there is one. This honesty is greatly appreciated.


Tcg

[1213]

But then, if you are not omniscient, how can you know that Gods judgments are not good?

Empathy for His victims.

Should we have empathy for all criminals and not judge anyone, even if they have murdered?

• God is omnipotent and omniscient.
• God has killed someone.
• God didn't want the person to be dead.

The first two come from my statement and you added the third. I'm saying now that those three things cannot simultaneously be true. Any two can, but not all three together.

Perhaps I'm missing something, though. How can all three be true?

No problem with your logic. However, I meant, God originally dont want anyone to die. He wants people to be righteous and for righteous He is going to give eternal life. Unfortunately some people dont want to be righteous and God doesnt want that unrighteous people live eternally and He doesnt want to force people to be righteous.

[Tcg]

However, I meant, God originally dont want anyone to die.

I always find this reasoning amusing. The omnipotent God had a plan, but it didn't work out as he planned.

An omnipotent being would need no Plan B.


Tcg

[ttruscott]

Please consider:
Violence is an illegal use of force. Use of force by a rightly constituted authority in accord with the law is not violence.

Use of force in self defence is not violence.

The use of force used to execute a criminal guilty of a capital crime is not violence but the righteous use of force.

The Christian system sees all sinners born into mankind as condemned criminals under the sentence of death. The authority that condmened them is righteous and the proper authority. How and when that death occurs has no bearing upon the rightness of the execution of the sentence, nor does how many others die at the same time.