God's violent ways

[OnceConvinced]

The god of the bible tends do deal with sin and evil in very violent ways. Ie, wiping out cities, sending floods, ordering violent deaths, ordering the slaying of animals for sacrifices, sending curses and plagues, etc.

Can you point out any instances in the bible where God deals with sin and evil in non-violent ways?

And I mean God here. Not Jesus.
And there are times God showed mercy and didn't deal with the sin and evil, sure. But when he did, were there non-violent methods used?

[Clownboat]

What religion does is not the same thing as what Christ does.

Please point to a modern thing that Christ has done and show us how we can know that Christ did it.

Nowhere does Christ suggest or encourage His sheep to 'become lost; to be stubborn; to be susceptible or gullible; or to be victims', etc.

It is implied if you are to be like sheep.

In fact, He tells His sheep to be on the lookout for those who would mislead us; to watch out for false prophets and false christs; to test even those who claim to be apostles (but who are false) - and NOT to listen to them.

Yes, yes, your ultimate shephard will guide you. Don't use your mind, just call them false prophets and continue to be a sheep.

The comparison of the Shepherd to the sheep that Christ (the Good Shepherd) made was as I posted above: His sheep follow Him (the Good Shepherd) and listen to His voice; He calls them (even by name) and they come to Him. He leads His sheep to life, to streams of living water; and He feeds His sheep as well.

This reminds me of trying to polish a turd. A turd remains a turd like a sheep remains a sheep even if polished.

Unfortunately, too many seem to forget that the wolves are wearing sheep's clothing.

Wolves have never worn sheeps clothing, but if your shephard says it, you better believe it. He guides you after all.
(Again, why this entire sheep gig is so important to those in power).

Being in Christ is what keeps us alive.

So those people/societies that are not 'in Christ' are fooling us and are only pretending to be alive?

This is nonsence and something I assume your shephard made you believe as this is not something that can be demonstrated to be true.
Sheep will believe anything their shephard tells them though. Thus why convincing your members to be sheep like is so important. Sheep will believe anything their shephard thells them (exceptions to every rule).

The wolves and other predators are out there, yes, but they cannot kill us as long as we are listening to the voice of the Good Shepherd, following and obeying Him. No one can snatch His sheep out of His hand.

This is not logical and is just empty religious plantitudes that a sheep hears from their shephard and then repeats.

Just listen to yourself.
Be a sheep and listen to the Good Shephard.
This is brainwashing and self indoctrination. You must see this, no?

That's actually a rhetorical question. When I was part of the flock, I didn't see it either.

[sorrento]

[Replying to post 217 by EarthScienceguy]

As Christians keep telling us that all men are sinners and considering that you said, "Anyone who breaks the smallest part of the God's law is guilty of breaking the whole law" does this mean that you consider yourself to be as evil as a paedophile mass-murdering serial rapist? Should I inform the authorities?

[Zzyzx]

.
Let the word play begin

‘Whole law’
‘Evil’
‘Sheep clothing’
‘In Christ’
‘Judgment’

Some seem to think that manipulation of wording can somehow make sense of nonsense.

[Clownboat]

[Replying to post 217 by EarthScienceguy]

As Christians keep telling us that all men are sinners and considering that you said, "Anyone who breaks the smallest part of the God's law is guilty of breaking the whole law" does this mean that you consider yourself to be as evil as a paedophile mass-murdering serial rapist? Should I inform the authorities?

Stop thinking like a shephard and following statements to their logical conclusions.

You need to be like a sheep. All men are sinners. Full stop... Don't think about such things. Be a sheep.
Then you don't have to deal with these logical conclusions.
It's a win win really.

Unless we consider all these humans we are calling sinners. Crap, I did it again. Come on boat, be like a sheep! The statement is true, even though it is illogical, because my shephard said it. I can do this!

[tam]

Peace to you,

What religion does is not the same thing as what Christ does.

Please point to a modern thing that Christ has done and show us how we can know that Christ did it.

I think that will prove to be a distraction from the point... so... allow me to rephrase.

What religion does is not the same as what Christ did (or as what Christ taught).

Nowhere does Christ suggest or encourage His sheep to 'become lost; to be stubborn; to be susceptible or gullible; or to be victims', etc.

It is implied if you are to be like sheep.

It is not.

Men might imply such things, but again, Christ did not. We can know this from the things He actually said (as opposed to vague claims of 'implication').

In fact, He tells His sheep to be on the lookout for those who would mislead us; to watch out for false prophets and false christs; to test even those who claim to be apostles (but who are false) - and NOT to listen to them.

Yes, yes, your ultimate shephard will guide you. Don't use your mind, just call them false prophets and continue to be a sheep.

How could you be testing those who claim to be apostles (but who are not) unless you are using your mind? Unless you are thinking?

Christ's method of teaching was by asking questions - this is to get people to THINK. He even asked, "Why do you not judge for yourselves what is right?" (Luke 12:57).

The comparison of the Shepherd to the sheep that Christ (the Good Shepherd) made was as I posted above: His sheep follow Him (the Good Shepherd) and listen to His voice; He calls them (even by name) and they come to Him. He leads His sheep to life, to streams of living water; and He feeds His sheep as well.

This reminds me of trying to polish a turd. A turd remains a turd like a sheep remains a sheep even if polished.

Oh, nice rebuttal there, Clownboat. If you don't have an actual response, then be crude and insulting instead. Maybe no one will notice that you were shown to be wrong.

Unfortunately, too many seem to forget that the wolves are wearing sheep's clothing.

Wolves have never worn sheeps clothing, but if your shephard says it, you better believe it. He guides you after all.

Seriously? So in your pretend world, no bad person ever disguises themselves as a good person? No liar ever pretends to be a truthful person? There are no frauds in your world? No one ever pretends to be a friend or a mentor in order to lead a person astray? No religious leaders are out there pretending to be sheep, but are instead devouring the sheep (and their faith), etc?

I imagine that is something a wolf would want to convince people of.

Of course perhaps you are turning to the utterly absurd - and attempting to present the words as if they were meant to be literal. Literal wolves literally disguised as literal sheep.

Being in Christ is what keeps us alive.

So those people/societies that are not 'in Christ' are fooling us and are only pretending to be alive?

Way to take something out of context.

You (or Z, I do not recall which) claimed that religion teaches that being in a flock keeps one safe from wolves and other predators.


I was countering that (which can be seen in the quote which followed: "The wolves and other predators are out there, yes, but they cannot kill us as long as we are listening to the voice of the Good Shepherd, following and obeying Him. No one can snatch His sheep out of His hand"). One can be in a flock and not be safe from predators (considering that the wolves are wearing sheep's clothing). It is Christ - the Good Shepherd - who keeps us alive and safe from those wolves and other predators.





Peace again to you.

[SallyF]

Let's just BELIEVE all the magic stuff is REAL, and nothing bad can happen to us, and we'll all get to Heaven …



Maybe we should have checked that there was evidence behind the magic stuff …

Instead of just believing what we were told because it made us feel all warm and fuzzy and safe and everyone else was believing it too …!

[Zzyzx]

.

So in your pretend world, no bad person ever disguises themselves as a good person? No liar ever pretends to be a truthful person? There are no frauds in your world?

The pretend world imagines that everything is ‘black or white’ – always ‘wolves’ (predators) or ‘sheep’ (followers or prey).

In the real world, people are seldom purely good or evil. Most have likely lied, cheated, or stolen at some time – or occasionally. A few make doing so their profession.

No one ever pretends to be a friend or a mentor in order to lead a person astray?

Of course there are false friends, mentors, prophets, shepherds.

Perhaps some who post here as Theists do so to ‘lead people astray’ (into believing false claims of special knowledge about ‘God’). Some even claim to hear directly from ‘God’ or Jesus or the Holy Spirit).

No religious leaders are out there pretending to be sheep, but are instead devouring the sheep (and their faith), etc?

Religious ‘leaders’ pretend to be shepherds – pretend to be leaders.

[tam]

Peace to you,

I am curious about your post and why you seem to be taking issue with my post. Are you arguing for the idea that there is no such thing as a wolf in sheep's clothing?

.

So in your pretend world, no bad person ever disguises themselves as a good person? No liar ever pretends to be a truthful person? There are no frauds in your world?

The pretend world imagines that everything is ‘black or white’ – always ‘wolves’ (predators) or ‘sheep’ (followers or prey).

I don't recall saying anything about everything being black or white; or even that people are either (always) wolves or sheep. This is about a person being one thing, while pretending to be another thing.

In the real world, people are seldom purely good or evil.

I agree.

Most have likely lied, cheated, or stolen at some time – or occasionally. A few make doing so their profession.

I agree.

No one ever pretends to be a friend or a mentor in order to lead a person astray?

Of course there are false friends, mentors, prophets, shepherds.

Okay then... we still seem to be in agreement up to this point.

Perhaps some who post here as Theists do so to ‘lead people astray’ (into believing false claims of special knowledge about ‘God’). Some even claim to hear directly from ‘God’ or Jesus or the Holy Spirit).

Well, you don't sound like you are arguing against the idea of there being wolves in sheep's clothing. So perhaps you can understand my confusion as to why you are taking issue with my post?

No religious leaders are out there pretending to be sheep, but are instead devouring the sheep (and their faith), etc?

Religious ‘leaders’ pretend to be shepherds – pretend to be leaders.

[/quote]


Indeed, but some must claim to be sheep as well (of Christ and/or of God).



Peace again to you!

[Zzyzx]

.

Perhaps some who post here as Theists do so to ‘lead people astray’ (into believing false claims of special knowledge about ‘God’). Some even claim to hear directly from ‘God’ or Jesus or the Holy Spirit).

Well, you don't sound like you are arguing against the idea of there being wolves in sheep's clothing. So perhaps you can understand my confusion as to why you are taking issue with my post?

It might relieve confusion to understand that I (and others) suspect that those who claim to hear the voice of God or Christ in their head are false prophets.

Is there some way to determine which of the hearers of voices are not false (that is based on more than opinion)?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 213 by tam]

Sorry tam, I'd still like an answer to the below:


What do you think, God thought, would happen when he left A&E alone with drakon, or whatever?

Is it about what you would expect if you knowingly hired a child molester as your baby-sitter?
Even if you told them that what that child molester would have them do was wrong.
Then they find out it feels good, even as their mind is rebelling against the helpless reality of the situation.

If you did hire a child-molester as your baby-sitter, would you then punish your children for being corrupted?

Feel free to address the analogy for inaccuracies, but please answer it.