Detailing Biblical Creation Mythology

[SallyF]

My Sunday school teachers and Bible class instructors used to quite happily go through the details of how "God" created the universe and everything in it.

I have noticed, in more recent years, that folks who still call themselves Christian avoid discussing the details of the two biblical creation mythologies.

They will go ON and On at length about the science of evolution, but not a squeak on the details in the "Word of God".

When Christians do not discuss the details of biblical creation, why would that be ?

[Danmark]

Wikipedia has a list of mythologies several pages long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mythologies
Aren't we lucky to have been born into the one and only religious culture that believes the only one that really happened?

We certainly were not born anywhere near the middle east, or Israel, however it did come to us...

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations..."~Jesus.. Written in the first century, and quoted by a guy with 12 followers, before "America" as a nation ever existed

Are you having trouble reading what I wrote? I'll repeat, with emphasis applied.
I wrote: "Aren't we lucky to have been born into the one and only religious culture that believes the only one that really happened?"

BTW, the same source you quote predicted Jesus would return 2000 years ago. He didn't. As for how widespread Christianity is, Non believers and Islam combined out number Christians, 2.4 billion to 2.1.


"One of the most widely-held myths among those in English-speaking countries is that Islamic believers are Arabs. In fact, most Islamic people do not live in the Arabic nations of the Middle East.

The world's 20 largest religions and their number of believers are:

Christianity (2.1 billion)
Islam (1.3 billion)
Nonreligious (Secular/Agnostic/Atheist) (1.1 billion)
Hinduism (900 million)
Chinese traditional religion (394 million)
Buddhism 376 million
Primal-indigenous (300 million)
African traditional and Diasporic (100 million)
Sikhism (23 million)
Juche (19 million)
Spiritism (15 million)
Judaism (14 million)
Bahai (7 million)
Jainism (4.2 million)
Shinto (4 million)
Cao Dai (4 million)
Zoroastrianism (2.6 million)
Tenrikyo (2 million)
Neo-Paganism (1 million)
Unitarian-Universalism (800,000)"

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/0 ... _religion/

[Tart]

Wikipedia has a list of mythologies several pages long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mythologies
Aren't we lucky to have been born into the one and only religious culture that believes the only one that really happened?

We certainly were not born anywhere near the middle east, or Israel, however it did come to us...

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations..."~Jesus.. Written in the first century, and quoted by a guy with 12 followers, before "America" as a nation ever existed

Are you having trouble reading what I wrote? I'll repeat, with emphasis applied.
I wrote: "Aren't we lucky to have been born into the one and only religious culture that believes the only one that really happened?"

BTW, the same source you quote predicted Jesus would return 2000 years ago. He didn't. As for how widespread Christianity is, Non believers and Islam combined out number Christians, 2.4 billion to 2.1.


"One of the most widely-held myths among those in English-speaking countries is that Islamic believers are Arabs. In fact, most Islamic people do not live in the Arabic nations of the Middle East.

The world's 20 largest religions and their number of believers are:

Christianity (2.1 billion)
Islam (1.3 billion)
Nonreligious (Secular/Agnostic/Atheist) (1.1 billion)
Hinduism (900 million)
Chinese traditional religion (394 million)
Buddhism 376 million
Primal-indigenous (300 million)
African traditional and Diasporic (100 million)
Sikhism (23 million)
Juche (19 million)
Spiritism (15 million)
Judaism (14 million)
Bahai (7 million)
Jainism (4.2 million)
Shinto (4 million)
Cao Dai (4 million)
Zoroastrianism (2.6 million)
Tenrikyo (2 million)
Neo-Paganism (1 million)
Unitarian-Universalism (800,000)"

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/0 ... _religion/

Well, it makes sense from a Christian perspective... But I guess you guys would have to conclude everyone is indoctrinated or something... 'Life just doesnt make sense'~atheism

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 88 by Zzyzx]

You did not answer the question?

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 87 by Difflugia]

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 80 by Tcg]

Do you know that carbon 14 level when these artifacts were made? If not then no one knows how old they are.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 104 by EarthScienceguy]

Point of order...

For person whose username is Earthscienceguy, you do not seem to understand how carbon dating works.
Or the nearly 100 other forms of radioactive dating works, which are used to quality check each other.

For living things carbon 14 is in equilibrium with the environment due to eating and other exchanges... when an organism dies, that becomes static and the decay can begin to be used as a metric.

Please forgive the criticism, but I believe it is simple enough to describe.

Kind regards,

[Difflugia]

[Replying to post 80 by Tcg]

Do you know that carbon 14 level when these artifacts were made? If not then no one knows how old they are.

We do. Here is the IntCal 13 issue of the journal Radiocarbon. Articles in the IntCal issues are devoted to the methodologies behind published ¹⁴C calibration curves and important data since the previous calibration issue. IntCal 13 is the most recent issue that was made Open Access, which means that we can all read it without having to pay for it. The curves are not only calibrated for differences through time, but for different parts of the world. If you find anything in those papers to make you think the calibration curves are less accurate than we might expect, you could let us know and we can discuss them.

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 87 by Difflugia]

I might think that to be true if the deficiencies were real ones.

The deficiencies with the Big Bang theory are well known and well defined outside creation science. Now creation science was responsible for pointing out some of these theories. But most came from secular scientist.

Like the lack of monopole particles or the amount of lithium in the universe.

According to modern cosmology, there is no such thing as "before" the Big Bang.

Not even close to being true. Have you not heard of the multiverse theory or computer simulation theory or Sukins black hole theory or even the cosmic egg theory. Cosmologist are in search of something anything that could be eternal.

Time and space came into existence simultaneously. More accurately, we can't actually know what happened prior to the first tiny fraction of a second prior to the initial expansion because that's when the laws of physics began to apply. Since time is a property of the Universe and "before" means earlier in time, "before the Universe began to exist" is nonsense.

Exactly this is why the Bible simply describes existence before the creation of the universe as simply before the world began. To our bodies which are made of the stuff of our universe existence without time is impossible. But the Bible says that God is not like us. The Bible declares that God is Spirit. You may ask how something could exist without a linear flow of time. It seems according to the Bible that spirit does not need time to exist or material to exist. The Bible also declares that time will not exist again at the end of time.

Revelations 10:6

5 Then the angel I had seen standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven. 6 And he swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and everything in it, the earth and everything in it, and the sea and everything in it: There will be no more delay! 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be fulfilled, just as He proclaimed to His servants, the prophets.

God's not real.

You cannot prove that He does not exist. And something did happen 2000 years ago in the Roman empire that changed the course of the world.

But regardless I was not trying to prove the existence of God I was simply describing the characteristics that God would have to have.

EarthScienceguy wrote:
There is a logical fallacy in thinking that anything could be created before the creation of the universe because time did not exist before the universe. There was no tick tock of time before the universe began.

That what I just said.

But I said it first.

EarthScienceguy wrote:
So God does possess the elements needed to create the universe. He existed before time, and He has always existed.

God's not real.

Again you cannot prove that. And Jesus was killed because He said He was God and Christians worship Him as God.

But regardless I was simply pointing out that God has all of the qualities needed to be the creator of the universe.

EarthScienceguy wrote:
2nd A second problem with naturalistic creation in which creationism answers is why does the universe have the laws and constants that it does to support life.

So, what's the problem and how does creationism solve it?

"What is the problem?"!! The question that naturalistic theology cannot answer is why does the universe have the laws and constance that it does. String theory tried to answer that question but it turned out that there were too many solutions to the equations of string theory. Each solution would result is an indication of a different universe with different laws and constants.

So either there has to be a infinite number of universes which there is no evidence for that or some consciousness had to create and order this universe and there are some that say that there is no evidence of a consciousness creating this universe. But everyone has to have faith in one or the other. I do not have enough faith in what lies beyond the rim of the universe.

EarthScienceguy wrote:
[Bible verses]

The universe was constructed.

An ordered creation of the universe is also the only solution to create a universe in which each individual person in real. Entropy makes an unplanned universe impossible to have individual entities with their own will.

Do you have a source for this assertion? Neuroscientists and psychologists still discuss whether free will is real or an illusion. Since I'm pretty sure that most behavioral scientists know what entropy is, if this were a valid argument, then I think the discussion would be over.

Wow, you do not know the theory you are trying to defend. The problem with having an infinite number of universes is it is much more likely that universe would form a Boltzmann brain than a complicated universe like the one we live in. In cosmology this is called the Boltzmann brain paradox and it has nothing to do with neuroscientists.

EarthScienceguy wrote:
3rd. Another problem that naturalistic theory cannot but creation theory can is the reason why the universe is so flat.

Perhaps you can find me a source that explains what this means. I don't know and I'm not going to try to guess.

EarthScienceguy wrote:
According to the Bible the universe started as a ball of water.

Not a ball. You're inferring that based on your own knowledge of the Universe. "The spirit of God was brooding upon the face of Deep" is what it says.

I wrote "Deep" there in Genesis 1:2 as a name. The word in Hebrew is "Tehom" without a definite article, so "the face of the deep" isn't quite correct. Contextually, the meaning could be that there are multiple "depths" and the spirit is brooding over one of them. In English, we would use an indefinite article (which Hebrew doesn't have) and it would be "the spirit is brooding upon a depth." The other possibility (that I think is the correct one) is that "Tehom" is a name, referring to Tiamat, a dragon that embodies Chaos in a Babylonian creation myth. If translated rather than transliterated, it would be rendered as "Deep." I think that sounds cooler, anyway.

The theological implication that I think was intended is that God formed the Earth from "Tehom" without needing to battle Her. In the Babylonian myth, Marduk (order) battled Tiamat (chaos) and the result was the Earth with its balance of order and chaos. God, the author of Genesis 1 was saying, was completely in charge of all. There was no push-pull, no conflict, all was according to God's will.

Or it could mean "giant ball of water," I guess. Theology's sometimes tricky.

Theology is when a inference is made when examining what God has revealed about himself or nature. This is not theology is a fact that God revealed in the Bible.

Job 26:10 He has inscribed a circle on the face of the waters

2 Peter 3:5 For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,

EarthScienceguy wrote:
If creation scientist Russel Humphreys is correct

He's probably not.

No supporting evidence .

EarthScienceguy wrote:
that ball of water as about 20 times the mass of our current universe.

Please show your (or Humphreys') work.

This will answer several of your questions.
https://www.icr.org/article/new-creatio ... o-time-at/

EarthScienceguy wrote:
4th Another problem that naturalistic theory cannot explain is the horizon problem.

Your creationist sources are outdated. The "horizon problem" is solved by inflation.

Not so much because it cannot be verified by observation.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... inflation/

EarthScienceguy wrote:
Why is the cosmic background radiation so smooth?
Click to view full-size
Not smooth.

EarthScienceguy wrote:
To put this into perspective a glass of water has more variation in temperature than the cosmic background radiation does, so a random energetic expanse of energy does not fit this observation.

Which Bible verse explains why and how God made the CMB such that it's not quite uniform (but more uniform than a glass of water) similar to what one might expect if there was a faster-than-light expansion of the inflationary horizon coupled with quantum fluctuations?

Again Inflation theory has shown to be incorrect by observation.

Humphrey's theory is born out of theology an inference of how Scripture describes the universe.

Humphrey's goes through how he inferred his view of the cosmos from Scripture.

https://creation.com/new-view-of-gravity

EarthScienceguy wrote:
They theorize a universe with six dimensions. The four that we experience and 2 other dimensions in which our universe moves in a circular motion in. This means that our 3 dimensional universe is under constant acceleration and it is this constant acceleration that causes the smooth background radiation.

Is there a Bible verse that explains why God would do that?

EarthScienceguy wrote:
This is why when you are comparing any two theories you look at how each theory explains the observations. Creation theory does a much better job at explaining things we observe in nature.

You do realize that the crux of "creation theory" is just to say that God can do anything, right? That doesn't actually explain anything. It's like asking how Superman flies and the answer is that he's Superman.

It depends on which faith you believe to be correct "Naturalistic or Creation" on who you believe is using science as a crux.

I watched a debate between a between a college science professor and Ray Comfort a pastor that does not know really anything about science. And the point that Ray Comfort made time and time again is that he knows where he came from and how the universe was made and the professor does not know. Christian's know where they came from and how the universe was created naturalist do not.

Christians has always used science to observe the mighty hand of God at work in our universe.

Naturalist have to use science as a crux to prove their pet theory of the decade. Judeo Christians have not changed their theory for over 4000 years. Our theory will be here long after any of the Naturalist theories. Christians need no crux for their theory they believe the Word of God speaks for itself.

On the other hand this evidence that there is no such thing as cosmic inflation presents a serious blow to the whole naturalistic worldview.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 107 by EarthScienceguy]

You cant prove anything does not exist, though if all of Gods characteristics are unobservable, impossible, undefined, and do not lead to any conclusion that we can make without such a creature, then a reasonable man concludes it does not exist.

The bottom line is this, God is indistinguishable from imagination.
The principle of a God explains nothing observable.
What it does explain are claims involving circular reasoning about such a God.

This includes creation.
See tag line RE creation...

[EarthScienceguy]

[Replying to post 108 by Willum]

Do you think you are real?

Do you believe those around you are real?

The only way that science says that can happen is if there is a creator that organized the creation of this universe. Otherwise we are nothing more than random energy in a Boltzmann Brain at least that is what the laws of thermodynamics indicate.

But if you want to believe in some sort of fairytale story that universe was "somehow' made out of nothing you are free to do that.