Does anyone actually believe the story of Noah's Ark?

Topaz27 · Post by **Topaz27** » Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:31 pm

I know a bunch of Christians, and so many of them believe that Noah's Ark is a myth. Basically just a story to teach morals and lessons. I personally see a lot of things wrong with the story of the flood. So I was wondering, if anyone believes the story of Noah's Ark, and the world flood, to be the truth?

Post by **Tcg** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:15 pm

Eloi wrote:
No matter what Jesus said or how, would you believe him?

What I would or would not believe is irrelevant. All that matters is what can be shown from the text.

In your view, how should he have said it to be taken as a real event?

You are the one who has asserted it should be taken as a real event.

Or how many times should Scripture talk about the matter to make it seem like a real event TO YOU?

Are you suggesting that the number of times something is talked about determines whether or not it should be taken literally? Remember, what it seems like TO ME is irrelevant. What can be demonstrated as true is the issue.

Tcg

Eloi · Post by **Eloi** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:23 pm

I said what I said, and for Christians it should be good if they analize seriously the matter. You are not a Christian ... you can think whatever you want.

Post by **Tcg** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:32 pm

Eloi wrote: I said what I said, and for Christians it should be good if they analize seriously the matter. You are not a Christian ... you can think whatever you want.

It was from Christians that I first became introduced to the idea I have presented here. Yes, Christians and non-Christians are free to think whatever they want. Once again, what matters is that which can be supported from the text. Accusing me of not being a Christian is irrelevant and provides no value to this discussion.

Tcg

Eloi · Post by **Eloi** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:42 pm

I said what I said cause it helps to see the Flood from the real perspective in which it is told in the Bible and in Jesus' own words.

A discussion to make you see that Jesus speaks of the Flood as a real event will be totally unproductive ... I will not argue with you to make you change your mind ... Your opinion about Jesus speaking in parables when he speaks of the Flood is unfounded and has no support of any kind ... Discussing with you about that is an empty discussion that I am not willing to extend further.

As I said before, we don't aisolate a passage to speculate about what it means ... we, Jehovah's Witnesses go to the whole Bible to learn the truth.

Have a good day.

Post by **Tcg** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:50 pm

Eloi wrote: I said what I said cause it helps to see the Flood from the real perspective in which it is told in the Bible and in Jesus' own words.

You've provided nothing that indicates that Jesus took it to be a literal event. Unless you can do so, claiming to know the "real perspective in which it is told in the Bible and in Jesus' own words.", is unfounded.

Tcg

Eloi · Post by **Eloi** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:53 pm

You meant you didn't provide anything to think Jesus was talking parabolic.

I did provide a lot of biblical arguments:

I don't think so, but you can take it as you wish ...

Not only Jesus talked about Noah and the Flood.

Heb.11:7By faith Noah, after receiving divine warning of things not yet seen, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this faith he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that results from faith.

1 Pet. 3:20 (...) God was patiently waiting in Noahs day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.

2 Pet. 2:4Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarta-rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment. 5And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people.

Noah and his children were included in the biblical genealogies, which would not have been if they had been fictional or mythological characters.

1 Chron. 1:1Adam,
Seth,
Enosh,
2Kenan,
Ma-hala-lel,
Jared,
3Enoch,
Me-thuse-lah,
Lamech,
4Noah,
Shem, Ham and Japheth.

Luk. 3:35[son] of Serug,
[son] of Reu,
[son] of Peleg,
[son] of Eber,
[son] of Shelah,
36[son] of Ca-inan,
[son] of Ar-pachshad,
[son] of Shem,
[son] of Noah,
[son] of Lamech,
37[son] of Me-thuse-lah,
[son] of Enoch,
[son] of Jared,
[son] of Ma-hala-le-el,
[son] of Ca-inan,
38[son] of Enosh,
[son] of Seth,
[son] of Adam,
[son] of God.

Through Isaiah Jehovah mentioned the event:

Is. 54:9This is just as the days of Noah to me. Just as I have sworn that the waters of Noah shall no more pass over the earth, so I have sworn that I will not become indignant toward you nor rebuke you. 10For the mountains themselves may be removed, and the very hills may stagger, but my loving-kindness itself will not be removed from you, nor will my covenant of peace itself stagger, Jehovah, the One having mercy upon you, has said.

... and through Ezekiel:

Eze. 14:12And the word of Jehovah continued to come to me, saying: 13Son of man, as regards a land, in case it commits sin against me in acting unfaithfully, I will also stretch out my hand against it and break for it the rods around which ring-shaped loaves are suspended, and I will send upon it famine and cut off from it earthling man and domestic animal. 14And had these three men proved to be in the midst of it, Noah, Daniel and Job, they themselves because of their righteousness would deliver their soul, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

No matter what Jesus said or how, would you believe him? In your view, how should he have said it to be taken as a real event? Or how many times should Scripture talk about the matter to make it seem like a real event TO YOU?

Post by **Tcg** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:56 pm

Eloi wrote: You meant you didn't provide anything to think Jesus was talking parabolic.

You are the one who claimed he wasn't. You are the one who has failed to provide evidence to support your claim.

Tcg

Eloi · Post by **Eloi** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:02 pm

Seriously? [Replying to Tcg]

But it's Ok, I can organize my arguments again about the Flood being a real event in the Bible:

Not only Jesus talked about Noah and the Flood.

Heb.11:7By faith Noah, after receiving divine warning of things not yet seen, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this faith he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that results from faith.

1 Pet. 3:20 (...) God was patiently waiting in Noahs day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.

2 Pet. 2:4Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarta-rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment. 5And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people.

Noah and his children were included in the biblical genealogies, which would not have been if they had been fictional or mythological characters.

1 Chron. 1:1Adam,
Seth,
Enosh,
2Kenan,
Ma-hala-lel,
Jared,
3Enoch,
Me-thuse-lah,
Lamech,
4Noah,
Shem, Ham and Japheth.

Luk. 3:35[son] of Serug,
[son] of Reu,
[son] of Peleg,
[son] of Eber,
[son] of Shelah,
36[son] of Ca-inan,
[son] of Ar-pachshad,
[son] of Shem,
[son] of Noah,
[son] of Lamech,
37[son] of Me-thuse-lah,
[son] of Enoch,
[son] of Jared,
[son] of Ma-hala-le-el,
[son] of Ca-inan,
38[son] of Enosh,
[son] of Seth,
[son] of Adam,
[son] of God.

Through Isaiah Jehovah mentioned the event:

Is. 54:9This is just as the days of Noah to me. Just as I have sworn that the waters of Noah shall no more pass over the earth, so I have sworn that I will not become indignant toward you nor rebuke you. 10For the mountains themselves may be removed, and the very hills may stagger, but my loving-kindness itself will not be removed from you, nor will my covenant of peace itself stagger, Jehovah, the One having mercy upon you, has said.

... and through Ezekiel:

Eze. 14:12And the word of Jehovah continued to come to me, saying: 13Son of man, as regards a land, in case it commits sin against me in acting unfaithfully, I will also stretch out my hand against it and break for it the rods around which ring-shaped loaves are suspended, and I will send upon it famine and cut off from it earthling man and domestic animal. 14And had these three men proved to be in the midst of it, Noah, Daniel and Job, they themselves because of their righteousness would deliver their soul, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

No matter what Jesus said or how, would you believe him? In your view, how should he have said it to be taken as a real event? Or how many times should Scripture talk about the matter to make it seem like a real event TO YOU?

1) Paul, Peter and others believed the Flood was a real event.
2) Jehovah mentioned Noah as a real man and the account a real event.
3) Noah and his sons are mentioned in the biblical genealogies.

It helps Christians to see the matter in the biblical perspective.

Post by **Tcg** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:12 pm

Eloi wrote:
1) Paul, Peter and others believed the Flood was a real event.

Where's the evidence to support this claim?

2) Jehovah mentioned Noah as a real man and the account a real event.

Where did he do so?

3) Noah and his sons are mentioned in the biblical genealogies.

At best that is evidence that Noah and his sons existed. It does nothing to support the claim that the flood was a literal event.

Tcg

Eloi · Post by **Eloi** » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:14 pm

Read again:

Not only Jesus talked about Noah and the Flood.

Heb.11:7By faith Noah, after receiving divine warning of things not yet seen, showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household; and through this faith he condemned the world, and he became an heir of the righteousness that results from faith.

1 Pet. 3:20 (...) God was patiently waiting in Noahs day, while the ark was being constructed, in which a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.

2 Pet. 2:4Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarta-rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment. 5And he did not refrain from punishing an ancient world, but kept Noah, a preacher of righteousness, safe with seven others when he brought a flood upon a world of ungodly people.

Noah and his children were included in the biblical genealogies, which would not have been if they had been fictional or mythological characters.

1 Chron. 1:1Adam,
Seth,
Enosh,
2Kenan,
Ma-hala-lel,
Jared,
3Enoch,
Me-thuse-lah,
Lamech,
4Noah,
Shem, Ham and Japheth.

Luk. 3:35[son] of Serug,
[son] of Reu,
[son] of Peleg,
[son] of Eber,
[son] of Shelah,
36[son] of Ca-inan,
[son] of Ar-pachshad,
[son] of Shem,
[son] of Noah,
[son] of Lamech,
37[son] of Me-thuse-lah,
[son] of Enoch,
[son] of Jared,
[son] of Ma-hala-le-el,
[son] of Ca-inan,
38[son] of Enosh,
[son] of Seth,
[son] of Adam,
[son] of God.

Through Isaiah Jehovah mentioned the event:

Is. 54:9This is just as the days of Noah to me. Just as I have sworn that the waters of Noah shall no more pass over the earth, so I have sworn that I will not become indignant toward you nor rebuke you. 10For the mountains themselves may be removed, and the very hills may stagger, but my loving-kindness itself will not be removed from you, nor will my covenant of peace itself stagger, Jehovah, the One having mercy upon you, has said.

... and through Ezekiel:

Eze. 14:12And the word of Jehovah continued to come to me, saying: 13Son of man, as regards a land, in case it commits sin against me in acting unfaithfully, I will also stretch out my hand against it and break for it the rods around which ring-shaped loaves are suspended, and I will send upon it famine and cut off from it earthling man and domestic animal. 14And had these three men proved to be in the midst of it, Noah, Daniel and Job, they themselves because of their righteousness would deliver their soul, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

No matter what Jesus said or how, would you believe him? In your view, how should he have said it to be taken as a real event? Or how many times should Scripture talk about the matter to make it seem like a real event TO YOU?