Detailing Biblical Creation Mythology

SallyF · Post by **SallyF** » Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:02 pm

My Sunday school teachers and Bible class instructors used to quite happily go through the details of how "God" created the universe and everything in it.

I have noticed, in more recent years, that folks who still call themselves Christian avoid discussing the details of the two biblical creation mythologies.

They will go ON and On at length about the science of evolution, but not a squeak on the details in the "Word of God".

When Christians do not discuss the details of biblical creation, why would that be ?

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:53 pm

EarthScienceguy wrote: [Replying to post 108 by Willum]

Do you think you are real?

Do you believe those around you are real?

The only way that science says that can happen is if there is a creator that organized the creation of this universe. Otherwise we are nothing more than random energy in a Boltzmann Brain at least that is what the laws of thermodynamics indicate.

But if you want to believe in some sort of fairytale story that universe was "somehow' made out of nothing you are free to do that.

Neither you nor Willum exist. You are merely products of my imagination, created by whim in my sleep. I apologize.

'You don't believe in me, observed the Ghost.

I don't, said Scrooge.

What evidence would you have of my reality beyond that of your senses?

I don't know, said Scrooge.

Why do you doubt your senses?

Because, said Scrooge, a little thing affects them. A slight disorder of the stomach makes them cheats. You may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of an underdone potato. There's more of gravy than of grave about you, whatever you are!'

__ Dickens, 'A Christmas Carol'

bluegreenearth · Post by **bluegreenearth** » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:05 pm

EarthScienceguy wrote: [Replying to post 108 by Willum]

Do you think you are real?

Do you believe those around you are real?

The only way that science says that can happen is if there is a creator that organized the creation of this universe. Otherwise we are nothing more than random energy in a Boltzmann Brain at least that is what the laws of thermodynamics indicate.

But if you want to believe in some sort of fairytale story that universe was "somehow' made out of nothing you are free to do that.

Just a few clarifications:

Technically, science functions to test falsifiable hypotheses and not to dictate how reality should operate. Within the boundaries of science, falsifiable hypotheses that survive every test designed to disprove them are tentatively accepted as the most reasonable explanations for phenomena observed in reality as supported by the evidence but are never proven to be absolutely true. This is because science allows for the possibility that a hypothesis which is currently accepted on account of having never been falsified could potentially be disproved at some point in the future. In other words, a reliable hypothesis makes novel testable predictions. For instance, we accept the Theory of Gravity as being the most likely explanation for how solid objectives like rocks are consistently observed falling towards the Earth when dropped because it has not yet been disproved despite being a falsifiable claim. We can use the theory to make a novel testable prediction that the next rock anyone throws up in the air will eventually fall back down to the ground. However, the Theory of Gravity will be immediately rejected the moment its novel testable predictions are falsified by observations in reality where solid objects like rocks begin falling upward when dropped instead of downward.

As for the claim that the universe was somehow made out of nothing (absolute vacuum with no quantum field fluctuations), this describes the theist's perspective on how God magically spoke everything into existence from the void and is not a falsifiable scientific hypothesis. I'm unaware of any falsifiable scientific hypotheses that propose the universe emerged out of absolute nothingness. There are a few ideas involving quantum field fluctuations, but those hypotheses are not yet testable. Furthermore, a quantum field doesn't qualify as a philosophical nothing because it is still a something.

Finally, the Laws of Thermodynamics only apply in isolated systems. The Earth, a planet on which intelligent brains evolved, is not an isolated system. Also, the Theory of Evolution which provides a falsifiable explanation for the emergence of intelligent brains does not necessitate that all forms of life become more complex over time. The process of natural selection merely enables the characteristics of biological creatures to change over time and reproduce adaptations which are advantageous for survival. These evolved adaptations need not increase the complexity of biological life in order to be beneficial.

OnceConvinced · Post by **OnceConvinced** » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:48 pm

EarthScienceguy wrote:

But if you want to believe in some sort of fairytale story that universe was "somehow' made out of nothing you are free to do that.

Don't you believe that God came from nothing? And that he created things out of nothing?

The belief that an all knowing, all powerful god always existed and is able to conjure up things via the spoken word is even more ludicrous to believe. Where did he get his natural resorces from to do the creating with? Every creator needs resources.

My personal feeling is that if a god could always exist, then why not the universe and basic life giving elements?

Clownboat · Post by **Clownboat** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:51 am

Christian's know where they came from and how the universe was created naturalist do not.

This kind of thinking is to do yourself a diservice.
Pretending to know things we do not know stops future learning.

I don't pretend to know that a god created the universe.
I don't pretend to know that there is a natural explanation.

I don't know... and therefore... I am open to learning.
No learning will take place when people use faith to trick themselve in to believing they already have the answers.

SallyF · Post by **SallyF** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 3:28 pm

Here is possibly the most preposterous scenario in the biblical creation mythology.

It's from the second myth, where the new god, Jehovah, creates (or re-creates) things in a different order to the old Canaanite Elohim.

The FIRST creature Jehovah creates is a mud-man called Adam (Adam referred to male and female humans that were the very last "special" creation by the old Elohim).

However

18The Lord God (Jehovah) said, It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.

19Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.

But for Adam no suitable helper was found.

There we are ...

"God" creates the animals from more mud in a failed attempt to make a "good-helper" for the mud-man.

And the planet's first human can not only speak, he has the vocabulary to compile a zoological taxonomy.

For obvious reasons, this bit of mythological nonsense didn't get a lot of attention in Bible class when I was a youngster.

And - as usual the details of biblical creation mythology are receiving very little attention from Christians on this site.

Can Christians even BEGIN to address the "figurativeness" of this preposterous biblical nonsense ?

(Please don't ask ME to explain what it means. It's YOUR Bible.)

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:03 pm

[Replying to post 114 by SallyF]

I think for most Christians, and at least for me, our beliefs in God have the cornerstone of Christ, and not the literal interpretations of the creation story... In fact, I thought there was a good explanation given for these kinds of blunders, when I read 1 Corinthians 1:18-25 for the first time. That made sense to me...

So perhaps that is why you are not getting the responses you are seeking for... Or perhaps they just dont want to reply...

Id also have to say, these kind of interpretations that seek to contradict Christianity are very low hanging fruit in this debate. So perhaps that is another reason....

I think for a Christian, and everyone at that matter, we just are not really sure about the details of these stories. Non of us were there, we dont speak ancient Hebrew, we dont know the exact reasoning the author wrote such things, and even if it were just 'myths', i know Christians who simply regard them as inspired by God... But you are insisting on literal interpretation of scripture, or at least your own interpretation, when id admit myself that i dont know of the exact correct interpretation of them...

The truth is, is that i think we should seek to understand the truth of these things. Seek to make sense of these stories, but a lot of the time I see people who want to make nonsense of them, in which case not a lot of Christians will adhere to such nonsense.

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:15 pm

Like for the sake of argument, would you call a Christian wrong, who may regard these stories as myths inspired by God?

EarthScienceguy · Post by **EarthScienceguy** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:18 pm

[Replying to post 112 by OnceConvinced]

Don't you believe that God came from nothing? And that he created things out of nothing?

The belief that an all knowing, all powerful god always existed and is able to conjure up things via the spoken word is even more ludicrous to believe. Where did he get his natural resources from to do the creating with? Every creator needs resources.

My personal feeling is that if a god could always exist, then why not the universe and basic life giving elements?

Danmark · Post by **Danmark** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:32 pm

Tart wrote: Like for the sake of argument, would you call a Christian wrong, who may regard these stories as myths inspired by God?

I would, and have. This ridiculous anthropomorphic 'god' of the Bible is also a myth. But the question itself is silly. Why would a true God inspire myths? Untruths? Could a real God be a purveyor of lies? I think not, but if you, "for the sake of argument," say so... I suppose you are entitled to your opinion.

Tart · Post by **Tart** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:37 pm

Danmark wrote:
Tart wrote: Like for the sake of argument, would you call a Christian wrong, who may regard these stories as myths inspired by God?
I would, and have. This ridiculous anthropomorphic 'god' of the Bible is also a myth. But the question itself is silly. Why would a true God inspire myths? Untruths? Could a real God be a purveyor of lies? I think not, but if you, "for the sake of argument," say so... I suppose you are entitled to your opinion.

Do you think 1 Corinthians 1:18-25 might shed light onto a God who might have this kind of nature?