"Jesus was in no way a Jew," Wllum

[Danmark]

William claims Jesus was not a Jew. His reasons appear faulty to me, but it may be worthy of debate.

Jesus was in no way a Jew.
He defied commandments.
He practiced and suggested blasphemy.
There is no divine impetus or scripture to suggest a Jewish mother makes you Jewish. It is a completely human convention and...

Deuteronomy 23:2 makes bastard-born people excluded from the assembly of God...

"No one born of a forbidden union may enter the assembly of the LORD. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may enter the assembly of the LORD."


You may say that since God did the immaculating, [sic] that it was sanctioned, the issue is, so few Jews believed this, and OFFICIALLY he was the son of an unholy union between a Roman soldier and a naughty young woman, that you really have no basis at all to make the claim.

In fact, even if Jesus was the son of God, mom could have been a kangaroo, for all the difference it would make.

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[Danmark]

I also cannot see how you can dismiss Celsus ....

I dismiss both Celsus and Celsius. I'm a Fahrenheit man.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 28 by Willum]

The Jews who had Rome execute him, executed him for blasphemy

If He was not a Jew, then how could the Jews have had Him executed for "allegedly" breaking a Jewish law? As a non-Jew, He would not have been subject to Jewish law to begin with.


**

He was a Jew by birth, by blood, through His mother. I'm not sure why you insist that genetics is a "human convention".

He was subject to Jewish law. A non-Jew would not be subject to Jewish law (and He did not break any commandments; but even if He had broken any commandments, that would not have meant He was not a Jew. That makes no sense at all.)

He was circumcised as a Jew and presented to the Temple with the appropriate sacrifice.


He was raised as a Jew by Jewish parents.


He was buried in accordance with Jewish customs.


He ate and associated with other Jews, including Pharisees, including priests in the Temple, even being invited into the home of Simon the Pharisee. These things would not have happened if He were not a Jew.

And he said to them, “You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean. Acts 10:28


He was brought to the high priest when he was arrested. How would a Jewish high priest have had authority over a non-Jewish Roman citizen?


**



Peace again to you.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 32 by tam]

Wow, at last someone makes some good and unforeseen points.

To answer... any non-Roman citizen could be arrested and killed for blasphemy... otherwise no one would be.
If Robert Graves is to be believed, Greeks were slain for sacrilege in Jerusalem, Roman Law was on the side of civil peace. Certainly Jews could be as well. Glibly: Jews were killed for not being Jewish. (Please do not be ingenuous about this comment.)

“Genetics is a human convention...�.either I misspoke, or you misunderstood.

He broke commandments, and these were not only his claims to fame, but what he was executed for. Sorry.

Lot’s of people are circumcised, it is a practice started hundreds of years before, in Egypt... see Herodotus.

The rest may be dismissed as local custom and manners...
But your first few points showed some great thinking!

[Tart]

I always believed he was. Which was why they put "King of the Jews" on his cross. He was brought up Jewish and spent many hours studying in Jewish temples. He was even referred to as Rabbi once or twice in the gospels.

Ya willum, I think you'd have to take this case to the Jews, who regarded him as a Jew, and teach them about their law of why he isnt one

[Willum]

[Replying to post 34 by Tart]

Not in this forum, but other Jews particularly have agreed, claiming it was eye opening.
You do realize that Jews would only have another Jew killed for practices against them, right?

In other words, a Jew who was not behaving as a Jew?
Is an apostate Jew, Jewish?

A Jew doesn’t kill someone for being a “good Jew.�

Though there is clearly wiggle room.

Just saying.

[OnceConvinced]

[Replying to post 17 by OnceConvinced]

Remember, they had no reason, Biblical or not to call him a Rabbi.

Yet they still considered him a fellow jew, desciples included. You'd think the desciples would know.

It's just a story.

So why the big deal about whether Jesus was a true Jew or not? Is this an attempt to say that Jesus didn't fulfill all the prophecies? ie wasn't a Jew so couldn't be the messiah? But if it's just a story why bother?

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 13 by Danmark]

Both genealogies go through Joseph. Not Mary.

The only connection Mary has to the genealogies was that she was josephs wife. Her being mentioned is just that. A mention. If her name was not there it wouldn't change the genealogy.

Both genealogies are through Joseph. Christians need to say one us Mary's because of the gross differences between the in Mathew and the one in Luke. Even if Christians want to say one is through Mary it makes no difference. BOTH PROVE JESUS IS NOT THE MESSIAH.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 36 by OnceConvinced]

Ar you implying he fulfilled prophecies? Outside of riding into Jerusalem on an assignment...or two asses if you believe Mathew; what other prophecy was fulfilled?

Riding into jerysalem on an ass---- so did lots of people

[Willum]

I think we need to revise your thesis.
Let’s ask, how non-Jewish does someone need to be before Jews want him dead?

That seems to be a decent criteria.

[WeSee]

[Replying to post 4 by WeSee]

Good point, Jesus didn’t abide by Judaism, he reformed it to Hellenic morality, at the same time calling it wrong, like no true Jew would.
And still don’t today!

Not sure what you saw as a good point, but it seems that some of what I posted might have escaped you.

Here it is again with key points in bold:

Yes, Jesus was a Jew.

In common speech, the word "Jew" is used to refer to all of the physical and spiritual descendants of Jacob/Israel, as well as to the patriarchs Abraham and Isaac and their wives, and the word "Judaism" is used to refer to their beliefs. Technically, this usage is inaccurate, just as it is technically inaccurate to use the word "Indian" to refer to the original inhabitants of the Americas. However, this technically inaccurate usage is common both within the Jewish community and outside of it, and is therefore used throughout this site.

A Jew is any person whose mother was a Jew or any person who has gone through the formal process of conversion to Judaism.

It is important to note that being a Jew has nothing to do with what you believe or what you do. A person born to non-Jewish parents who has not undergone the formal process of conversion but who believes everything that Orthodox Jews believe and observes every law and custom of Judaism is still a non-Jew, even in the eyes of the most liberal movements of Judaism, and a person born to a Jewish mother who is an atheist and never practices the Jewish religion is still a Jew, even in the eyes of the ultra-Orthodox. In this sense, Judaism is more like a nationality than like other religions, and being Jewish is like a citizenship.

Pasted from <http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm>