Does anyone actually believe the story of Noah's Ark?

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Topaz27
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Does anyone actually believe the story of Noah's Ark?

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I know a bunch of Christians, and so many of them believe that Noah's Ark is a myth. Basically just a story to teach morals and lessons. I personally see a lot of things wrong with the story of the flood. So I was wondering, if anyone believes the story of Noah's Ark, and the world flood, to be the truth?

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Post #121

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Topaz27 wrote: Actually one more important question. How many animals in total, do you think were on the ark?

HOW MANY ANIMALS WERE IN THE ARK?

Concervative estimates (based on a breakdown of the groups along the lines provided by the Encylopedia Americana , 1077 Vol 1 pp 859 - 873) stand at around 290 species of land mamals larger than sheep. It would be impossible to say for sure how many pairs of biblical "kinds" Noah took but a reasonable estimate of the total number of animals might be about 2,000 animals as large (or larger) than a sheep*.


* The book The Deluge Story in Stone by BC Nelson P. 156; The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, by A M Rehwinkel p 69 notes that most animals are quite small, classifying 1, 350 mamals being smaller than rats.




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Re: Does anyone actually believe the story of Noah's Ark?

Post #122

Post by onewithhim »

OnceConvinced wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
Topaz27 wrote: I know a bunch of Christians, and so many of them believe that Noah's Ark is a myth. Basically just a story to teach morals and lessons. I personally see a lot of things wrong with the story of the flood. So I was wondering, if anyone believes the story of Noah's Ark, and the world flood, to be the truth?
Yes, I do. If a person believes in Jesus, and believes the Bible is an inspired work of God, that person will believe the account of Noah---Jesus spoke of it as a fact. (See Matthew 24: 37-39.)
The fact that Jesus believed it is damning evidence he was a fallible human being like all the rest and not divine.
onewithhim wrote: I would stake my life on what Jesus is recorded as saying.
And those Muslim extremists who rammed planes into the Twin Towers were staking their lives on their beliefs too. Does that make what they believe to be any more true?
onewithhim wrote: It remains to be seen if every small detail of the account is literal. But the basic story is surely true, as evidenced in other civilizations' accounts of a great flood.
Did you read my post I made to JW earlier? You guys are stabbing yourself in the foot when you bring up other civilisations accounts of the great flood. If there were other survivors then that means the bible was blatantly wrong when it says that Noah and his family were the only humans who were saved. So why would you take any part of the Noah story seriously?

You want to point out that Jesus believed this story, so it MUST be true because Jesus believed it. However do you wish to deny the scriptures I quoted that specifically say Noah and his family were the only human survivors?

I'm not even going to get into the hundreds of problems with the Noah's Ark story because I can see you guys are giving the same apologetic arguments that have been debunked many times already including the threads that JW links to in her posts. It all comes down to magic in the end anyway. So why try to explain it away with natural reasons?
To respond to each of your points:
(1) The Scriptures portray Jesus as having come from heaven, and was the Son of God, more than an ordinary man. I thought that this forum accepted the Bible as an authentic authority, so why do people come here who do not believe the Bible is legit?

(2) Your comment about my beliefs and the Muslims' beliefs----I don't really understand why you made that statement. I was merely stating what I thought, why I thought that the story of the Flood was true. My own thoughts.

(3) The fact that other civilizations have Flood stories just reaffirms the validity of the Noah narrative. The other stories may have different names for the people who were saved on an ark-like structure, but that doesn't mean that they all could not actually be referring to Noah and his family. If the Noah story was true, it stands to reason that civilizations down the road would have some kind of Flood story, with their own flourishes.

(4) I don't think that JW, myself, and the others are trying to "explain away" the Flood with natural reasons....we have just offered scientific facts about the amount of water that caused the Flood, which some people asked about. I believe that there are many things about the Flood that were "magic" as you say....directly influenced by God. And I had said that I personally don't know if every DETAIL in the story is literal, but the basic tale is true, IMHO. We will certainly find out one day in the future---probably in Paradise.

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Post #123

Post by onewithhim »

[Replying to post 98 by Tcg]

You said, "what can be DEMONSTRATED as true is true." That's why I asked if you could demonstrate that Julius Caesar existed. You really couldn't, because all we have to go on are people's writings from around the first century on. So why not take the Bible seriously? The Flood story cannot be demonstrated, just like the first molecule coming to life from non-living matter cannot be demonstrated, yet we know that it happened. We have faith that the Flood story happened, just as we trust the writings about Julius Caesar, and Nero, and Mt. Vesuvius erupting on Pompeii and the surrounding towns. Do you say that those things are not true because we can't demonstrate that they really existed or happened?

Topaz27
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Re: Does anyone actually believe the story of Noah's Ark?

Post #124

Post by Topaz27 »

[Replying to post 122 by onewithhim]

onewithinhim:
Not all flood mythos are the same. Take the Gaelic story of Ceasair. Her father was Noah (yes the Noah from the Bible), and he refused her entry to the ark. So she built her own. She brought many others with her, and set sail for what we now call Ireland.

There's two ways I can think someone can take this story.
A)The story is true, and someone else survived the flood. Which means that God didn't accomplish his goal

Or

B)The story is false. But then the question becomes, how can you prove that it's false?

How do you know that your flood myth is true? And not the countless other ones.

Also other flood myths are radically different. Take she story of Trentren Vilu and Caicai Vilu. That story is about battle, not a God washing away evil. So you saying that because other cultures have flood myths, I must be right, makes absolutely no sense. Especially when Noah's flood seems to take a lot of inspirations form Gilgamesh's flood.

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Post #125

Post by Topaz27 »

[Replying to post 121 by JehovahsWitness]

If you could answer my other questions that would be great. Just so I can answer them all at once.

Thank you :D

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Post #126

Post by Tcg »

onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 98 by Tcg]

You said, "what can be DEMONSTRATED as true is true."
Here is what I actually said:
  • Are you suggesting that the number of times something is talked about determines whether or not it should be taken literally? Remember, what it seems like TO ME is irrelevant. What can be demonstrated as true is the issue.
You not only misquoted me, but took my statement out of context in an attempt to make it imply something I didn't intend.

As you can see, my comment is directed to the issue of whether or not the Flood story should be taken literally. That is what needs to be demonstrated as true.

You'll note again that I made no claims about Julius Caesar.


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Post #127

Post by Tcg »

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Topaz27 wrote: Actually one more important question. How many animals in total, do you think were on the ark?

HOW MANY ANIMALS WERE IN THE ARK?

Concervative estimates (based on a breakdown of the groups along the lines provided by the Encylopedia Americana , 1077 Vol 1 pp 859 - 873) stand at around 290 species of land mamals larger than sheep. It would be impossible to say for sure how many pairs of biblical "kinds" Noah took but a reasonable estimate of the total number of animals might be about 2,000 animals as large (or larger) than a sheep*.


* The book The Deluge Story in Stone by BC Nelson P. 156; The Flood in the Light of the Bible, Geology, and Archaeology, by A M Rehwinkel p 69 notes that most animals are quite small, classifying 1, 350 mamals being smaller than rats.


JW
Does this estimate consider that for clean animals, there would have been seven pairs not a single pair?

How many of the clean animals would be as large (or larger) than a sheep?


Tcg
To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

- American Atheists


Not believing isn't the same as believing not.

- wiploc


I must assume that knowing is better than not knowing, venturing than not venturing; and that magic and illusion, however rich, however alluring, ultimately weaken the human spirit.

- Irvin D. Yalom

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Re: Does anyone actually believe the story of Noah's Ark?

Post #128

Post by JehovahsWitness »

Topaz27 wrote:
There's two ways I can think someone can take this story.
A)The story is true, and someone else survived the flood. ...
Or

B)The story is false.

Could you explain why the story could not be true and the flood accounts transmitted by the descendents of the survivors? I'm puzzled by the rationale behind the above dichotomy.



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Post #129

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 125 by Topaz27]

I have answered all the questions I see as answerable, reasonable and relevant:


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Last edited by JehovahsWitness on Mon Jan 23, 2023 6:27 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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Romans 14:8

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Post #130

Post by JehovahsWitness »

[Replying to post 113 by Diagoras]

WHAT WOULD THE BIG CATS LIKE LIONS AND TIGERS HAVE EATEN?

Image
Lions are carnivores, which means they are animals that only eat meat. Some of the types of prey they catch include birds, hares, turtles, mice, lizards ...
https://study.com/academy/lesson/what-d ... -kids.html
If large sources of meat are not readily available, Siberian Tigers will eat rabbits, fish, and any rodents they can get to.
http://www.tigerfdn.com/
Lions in captivity feed heavily on a variety of different types of meats, including beef, sheep, rabbit, chicken and horse -- including heads of horses.
https://animals.mom.me/lions-eat-captivity-4317.html
NOTE The Association of Zoos and Aquariums suggests that the average male requires 8 pounds of food per day (6 pounds for female) for captive animals.
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681


"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" -
Romans 14:8

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