Does all NT instruction apply to Christians today?

[RRL]

Does all instruction given to Christians in the New Testament, unless noted as applying only to a specific group of people, apply to Christians today? Yes or no?

I'm including all instruction, regardless of whether it was from Jesus, Paul, John the Baptist, etc.

If the answer is no, which specific instruction would you say does NOT apply to Christians today?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 20 by tam]

I would like to add an addendum to my previous post with regard to the law.


I think Paul is referring to the law of Moses when he brings it up (Paul was a former Pharisee, trained and zealous in the law - and it is not easy to let go of "deeply entrenched things"). But if Paul were referring to the law that is LOVE (the law of the new covenant), then I can see why women may have been instructed to be silent in any public gathering... if she was even permitted to attend a public gathering instead learning what was said from her husband at home. Because while she does have the freedom in Christ to speak (in the Church), doing so in public might endanger her and her brothers and sisters; in that time and place, and during the ongoing persecution.

It would be the same in some countries today (such as Saudi Arabia perhaps). Love would compel that a woman act to keep herself and her brothers and sisters from unnecessary danger, including adhering to restrictions upon her speech and her attire in public.


In western countries today, that is not an issue.


Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[RRL]

As to the rest above, you will note that Paul refers back to the Law which states a woman must be silent. But we are not under the Law, so why should that matter to us who are in Christ? It was Jewish women - under the law - who were not permitted to speak in the synagogues. (If you are a group of Jewish Christians in hiding from persecution for being Christian, it might be unwise to exercise all the freedoms that you have in Christ; at least in public.)

You are not under the law? Jesus said he came to uphold the law, not abolish it.

If we go by Jesus' words, I think it is false to say that as a Christian, you are not under the law.

Also, Paul says these things he's talking about are a command of the Lord.

Even so, while Paul does teach on issues that are specific to time and place and circumstance, Paul can also make mistakes. All men can. Hence, if one wants to know the truth, one should hold all things up to Christ (Christ is the Light and the Truth), including anything from Paul or anyone else.

You could say the same about the other authors of the Bible, including the ones who wrote about Jesus. If we go by that, your entire belief system could be called into question.

It's kind of arbitrary for you to say "Paul was a human and humans can make mistakes, but the humans who wrote about Jesus could not possibly have made mistakes or written any false information, including making up Jesus). And really, if you look into the Gospels, there is plenty of issues, are you aware of those? I'll be glad to post them in a separate thread if you want me to.

[tam]

Peace to you,

As to the rest above, you will note that Paul refers back to the Law which states a woman must be silent. But we are not under the Law, so why should that matter to us who are in Christ? It was Jewish women - under the law - who were not permitted to speak in the synagogues. (If you are a group of Jewish Christians in hiding from persecution for being Christian, it might be unwise to exercise all the freedoms that you have in Christ; at least in public.)

You are not under the law?

I am not under the law of the old covenant, no. That covenant (and its law) was only between Israel and God, and it was mediated by Moses.

A person cannot be held to the terms of a contract (which is what a covenant is) if they were never part of that contract.

I am in the new covenant, mediated by Christ. The law of the new covenant that is written upon the heart is love.

Jesus said he came to uphold the law, not abolish it.

Christ (Jaheshua) said that He came to FULFILL the law... and that is what He did.

If we go by Jesus' words, I think it is false to say that as a Christian, you are not under the law.

That is a misunderstanding of His words.


The law was a tutor leading to Christ, now that Christ is here, we are under Him - His words, His teachings, His commands. Love your neighbor as yourself. Love God with your whole heart, mind and soul. Love also your enemies and pray for those who persecute you (so that we may be sons of our Father in heaven). And the new command that Christ gave: love one another as He has loved us.

Also, Paul says these things he's talking about are a command of the Lord.

Please see my added post above on this page (post 21).

Even so, while Paul does teach on issues that are specific to time and place and circumstance, Paul can also make mistakes. All men can. Hence, if one wants to know the truth, one should hold all things up to Christ (Christ is the Light and the Truth), including anything from Paul or anyone else.

You could say the same about the other authors of the Bible, including the ones who wrote about Jesus. If we go by that, your entire belief system could be called into question.

My faith is based upon Christ, the living Christ, the Word of God who is alive and who speaks. Christ is the foundation upon whom my house (my faith) is built. Errors in the bible are not going to affect my faith. My Lord is the One who leads His sheep into all truth.

It's kind of arbitrary for you to say "Paul was a human and humans can make mistakes, but the humans who wrote about Jesus could not possibly have made mistakes or written any false information, including making up Jesus).

I have not said that.

And really, if you look into the Gospels, there is plenty of issues, are you aware of those? I'll be glad to post them in a separate thread if you want me to.

No need, but thank you.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Willum]

[Replying to post 23 by tam]

Point of order: Corinthians is New Testament, therefore you are under it.
Were I believer in Christianity, this kind of mistake is the reason why God would like women to be silent in church. If they can not be bothered to take the laws of Christianity seriously, even less seriously than a non-believer, their credibility is little.

Were I a Christian.
In my opinion Tam, you can sound off in church all you like.

Mixing up Books of the Bible is the least of its problems.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 23 by tam]

Point of order: Corinthians is New Testament, therefore you are under it.

Point of order: Corinthians is a (second and third) letter that Paul wrote to the Corinthians. I am not under Paul. I am under Christ.

Were I believer in Christianity, this kind of mistake is the reason why God would like women to be silent in church.

Suggesting that a person who is in Christ is 'under the new testament' is the error. Even IN the "NT", God is written to have said "This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to Him."

Of course, women pointing out this (or any other) error to a man who teaches it... well that sounds like a reason some men continue to demand that women be silent, lol.

In my opinion Tam, you can sound off in church all you like.

Well, that is kind of you Willum.

I will defer to my Lord though. If He did not permit me to speak in the church (the church is the body of Christ, made of people - the church is not a building), then I would not. He does not tell me this though; He has even told me to speak, so as to share as He has given me.



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Willum]

[Replying to post 25 by tam]

Point of order:
If you don't understand the implications of the Book you profess is the holy word of God - you do not revere the Holy word of God.

The truth Tam, is often difficult to accept.
You don't like Corinthians.
I detested Algebra.

Detesting it, if you believe it is true, does not mean you can ignore it.
Unless you can account ANY law Jesus said himself, and was not a quote or guidance.

Alternatively, it must be nice to be able to, in your own mind, determine the Gospel truth for the entire world, as, many churches believe, and enforce, women being silent in church.

Between you, them and Corinthians, as an outside observer, unless you have some reason your opinion trumps Corinthians and many churches, I think you should be silent...
In church.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 25 by tam]

Point of order:
If you don't understand the implications of the Book you profess is the holy word of God - you do not revere the Holy word of God.

I do not profess the Bible to be the Holy Word of God.

Christ is the Holy Word of God.

I listen to and follow Him.

The truth Tam, is often difficult to accept.

Indeed.

You don't like Corinthians.

I don't like the errors in the letter to the Corinthians. I don't have a problem with Corinthians.

I detested Algebra.

I always liked algebra.

Detesting it, if you believe it is true, does not mean you can ignore it.

No one has suggested this.

Unless you can account ANY law Jesus said himself, and was not a quote or guidance.

I do not know what you mean with this sentence. Perhaps you could rephrase.

Alternatively, it must be nice to be able to, in your own mind, determine the Gospel truth for the entire world, as, many churches believe, and enforce, women being silent in church.

So then perhaps you should be taking issue with them for 'determining gospel truth for the entire world'?

Between you, them and Corinthians, as an outside observer, unless you have some reason your opinion trumps Corinthians and many churches, I think you should be silent...
In church.

Well we all choose who we listen to, don't we? I listen to Christ (the Truth and the Light and the Word of God). You are choosing to adhere to "their" opinion (and/or interpretation) on this matter. Why should I do the same as you? Why should I not just ask and listen to Christ, so that I do not have to rely upon my own opinion?







Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Zzyzx]

.

I do not profess the Bible to be the Holy Word of God.

Christ is the Holy Word of God.

I listen to and follow Him.

Direct communication? Voices? Psychic 'experiences'?

[Willum]

[Replying to post 27 by tam]

I do not profess the Bible to be the Holy Word of God.

So you have some magical way of distinguishing the word of God from the Bible.
No, you don't.

Christ is the Holy Word of God.

Christ is God, or some such.
So you have some magical way of distinguishing the word of God from Jesus.
No, you don't.

I don't like the errors in the letter to the Corinthians. I don't have a problem with Corinthians.

So you have some magical way of distinguishing the word of Jesus from Corinthians.
No, you don't.

I always liked algebra.

Analogy failure. Point to me.
Do you think literal mindedness isn't speaking with the tongue of your devil? Didn't your master say "But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
?

Quote:

Detesting it, if you believe it is true, does not mean you can ignore it.

No one has suggested this.

No, you stated it implicitly, when you said you ignore Corinthians because it is too hard and evil for you to accept.

I do not know what you mean with this sentence. Perhaps you could rephrase.

Theists often find their native language, even, incomprehensible if it means that they need to admit their religion makes no sense.
I was referring to any direct quotes or evidence you have from your master's lips.
But, there are none, only what was written down from what fallible men wrote. Men whom, in turn can't be shown to exist.

Quote:

Alternatively, it must be nice to be able to, in your own mind, determine the Gospel truth for the entire world, as, many churches believe, and enforce, women being silent in church.

So then perhaps you should be taking issue with them for 'determining gospel truth for the entire world'?

Now that makes no sense. Essentially you claim your interpretation of your master's words are right, and those who think you should remain silent, are wrong. Despite direct references in the book of your master, and many many churches that surely have more wisdom than you.

Well we all choose who we listen to, don't we? I listen to Christ (the Truth and the Light and the Word of God).

Well that is in dispute isn't it?

I have noted before, even above, that your answers are not what your master's words support, and in other topics, we have noted that you rarely answer direct questions, but answer cleverly, as if supporting your master's enemy.

[tam]

Peace to you,

I always liked algebra.

Analogy failure. Point to me.
Do you think literal mindedness isn't speaking with the tongue of your devil?

Allow me to rephrase your question for clarity:

Your question (rephrased for clarity): Don't you think literal-mindedness is speaking with the tongue of your devil?

Answer: Of course not. What you are suggesting makes no sense. The 'tongue' of 'the' devil is lies.

When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Didn't your master say "But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

Sounds pretty literal to me, Willum.

Simply let your ’Yes’ be ’Yes,’ and your ’No,’ ’No.’ Anything more comes from the evil one.

Quote:

Detesting it, if you believe it is true, does not mean you can ignore it.

No one has suggested this.

No, you stated it implicitly, when you said you ignore Corinthians because it is too hard and evil for you to accept.

Please go back and quote where I EVER said that I "ignore Corinthians" because "it is too hard and evil for me to accept".


I won't hold my breath waiting.

I do not know what you mean with this sentence. Perhaps you could rephrase.

Theists often find their native language, even, incomprehensible if it means that they need to admit their religion makes no sense.
I was referring to any direct quotes or evidence you have from your master's lips.
But, there are none, only what was written down from what fallible men wrote. Men whom, in turn can't be shown to exist.

There are plenty of quotes from His lips; just not from His pen.

Well we all choose who we listen to, don't we? I listen to Christ (the Truth and the Light and the Word of God).

Well that is in dispute isn't it?

Not by me. You can accept or reject that as you choose; it does not change what I know as to myself.

I have noted before, even above, that your answers are not what your master's words support,

Which words of my Lord do not support what I said?

and in other topics, we have noted that you rarely answer direct questions,but answer cleverly, as if supporting your master's enemy.

This is the fourth time (that I have noted) where you (falsely) accuse me of talking or acting like the devil. And yet it is you who has spoken falsely about what I have said in this thread.



Just sayin'



Peace again to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy