The return of Christ?

[Tart]

It's a good question... People have been asking for years "why hasnt Jesus returned yet?".."it was suppose to happen 2000 years ago"....

But technically it says it is suppose to happen in the end times in Revelations...

However... I was thinking about the book of Act's, when it said Jesus would return in the same manner he was taken up to heaven... I just started pondering it, if it would ever happen before I die...

But the Book of Revelations end with

20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.�
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.

the end times actually play out, with Jesus never returning... Or does He?

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 1 by Tart]

Rev.22
[20] He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.(KJV)

***
20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly.
Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
(Authorized King James Version AKJV)

***

20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming soon.� Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all.[d] Amen.(English Standard Version ESV)

***

20 The one who testifies about these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.�
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ[e] be with all the saints.[f] Amen.
( EVANGELICAL HERITAGE VERSION EHV)

***

20 “He who has said all these things declares: Yes, I am coming soon!�
Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen!
(The Living Bible)


The Author of the Book of Revelation clearly believed that the return of Jesus was imminent; i.e. "SOON!" The passage of two thousand years makes a mockery of the beliefs and expectations of the author of The Book of Revelation, however. The Book of Revelation, like ALL religious treatises, represents the beliefs and expectations of the individual that authored the document. After the passage of two thousand years it should be obvious to all that the author of The Book of Revelation was unmistakably WRONG IN HIS BELIEFS AND EXPECTATIONS! Like most (all?) religious zealots he was simply fulla-bulla.

The passage of two thousand years represents an amount of time far to great to have any relationship with the concept of "soon." At this point the best that can be asserted is that Jesus will return "eventually."

In what way does this open ended and unrealistic expectation represent anything other than an obvious example of unfulfilled wishful thinking; i.e. nonsense?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 2 by Tired of the Nonsense]



HAS THE BIBLE BEEN PROVEN WRONG SINCE IT SPEAKS OF CERTAIN PROPHECIES BEING FULFILLED "SOON" AND "QUICKLY" YET THOUSANDS OF YEARS AFTER BEING WRITTEN THEY REMAIN UNFULFILLED?

Everything is reletive, biblicaly "quickly" and "soon" for an infinite God may appear "long" and "slow" from a human point of view. The bible is Gods appeal to humanity to think his way, , to look at things not from a human perspective but from a divine one.

PSALMS 90:4 (NIV)

A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

QUESTION Is the above only valid if the bible was destined for another infintite God?

No, nobody that knows their scripture would thus reason. The purpose of the bible is to show us the mind of God, an infinite God , speaking of an infinite God so humans can take note of the difference.. Note Gods appeal at Isaiah 55 : "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways,� declares Jehovah" {end quote}. Obviously the point is lost jf God doesnt reveal his own very different take on matters, including that of time.

2 PETER 3:3-9 NWT

First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires+ 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his?+ Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.� ....

8 However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah* as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.+ 9 Jehovah* is not slow concerning his promise,+ as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance..

CONCLUSION The many scriptures that explain how God views time are there to explain to finite humans that they must accept that divine prophecy will be fulfilled "soon" and "quickly" according Gods timescale which by definition will appear long from a human point of view. The explanations are evidence of God keeping his audience in mind, reminding them that what they perceive as a delay is actually no delay at all.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[JehovahsWitness]

But technically it says it is suppose to happen in the end times in Revelations...

We (Jehovahs Witnesses) are currently (November 2019) studying the book of Revelation in our bible classes, its a fascinating book and one of my favorites not just because its so visual and dramatic but because we are seeing its prophecites being fulfilled befor our very eyes. Indeed it bolsters my faith as many of the features were fulfilled in the 20th century confirming its accuracy.

An amazing, breathtakingly accurate book of prophecy.



JW

Go to other posts related to...

THE SECOND COMING *, LAST DAYS and ...THE BOOK OF REVELATION

*The Return of Christ

NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

[Tcg]

[Replying to post 2 by Tired of the Nonsense]

Everything is reletive, biblicaly "quickly" and "soon" for an infinite God may appear "long" and "slow" from a human point of view.

PSALMS 90:4 (NIV)

A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

This argument would be somewhat plausable if an infinite God were speaking to another infinite God. However, that message (supposedly) was given to humans. For humans, 2,000 years is like 2,000 years. Nothing close to soon.

Unless of course you are arguing that God lost track of the audience the message was given to. Perhaps he forgot that he is the only infinite God. Perhaps he didn't realize that the author of Psalm 90 had never read 2 Peter.


Tcg

[Tired of the Nonsense]

[Replying to post 2 by Tired of the Nonsense]



HAS THE BIBLE BEEN PROVEN WRONG SINCE IT SPEAKS OF CERTAIN PROPHECIES BEING FULFILLED "SOON" AND "QUICKLY" YET THOUSANDS OF YEARS AFTER BEING WRITTEN THEY REMAIN UNFULFILLED?

Everything is reletive, biblicaly "quickly" and "soon" for an infinite God may appear "long" and "slow" from a human point of view. The bible is Gods appeal to humanity to think his way, , to look at things not from a human perspective but from a divine one.

PSALMS 90:4 (NIV)

A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

QUESTION Is the above only valid if the bible was destined for another infintite God?

No, nobody that knows their scripture would thus reason. The purpose of the bible is to show us the mind of God, an infinite God , speaking of an infinite God so humans can take note of the difference.. Note Gods appeal at Isaiah 55 : "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, and your ways are not my ways,� declares Jehovah" {end quote}. Obviously the point is lost jf God doesnt reveal his own very different take on matters, including that of time.

2 PETER 3:3-9 NWT

First of all know this, that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires+ 4 and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his?+ Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.� ....

8 However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah* as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.+ 9 Jehovah* is not slow concerning his promise,+ as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with you because he does not desire anyone to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance..

CONCLUSION The many scriptures that explain how God views time are there to explain to finite humans that they must accept that divine prophecy will be fulfilled "soon" and "quickly" according Gods timescale which by definition will appear long from a human point of view. The explanations are evidence of God keeping his audience in mind, reminding them that what they perceive as a delay is actually no delay at all.

JEHOVAHS WITNESS

Our World in Data
Life expectancy
For the UK – the country for which we have the longest time-series – we see that before the 19th century there was no trend for life expectancy: life expectancy fluctuated between 30 and 40 years.
https://ourworldindata.org/life-expecta ... d-globally

For most of human history the average life expectancy was only 30-40 years. If we are being generous we might round that figure up to 50 years. So, it's easy to see that a thousand years represents roughly 20-25 human lifetimes. Conversely, two thousand years represents 40-50 entire human lifetimes.

HAS THE BIBLE BEEN PROVEN WRONG SINCE IT SPEAKS OF CERTAIN PROPHECIES BEING FULFILLED "SOON" AND "QUICKLY" YET THOUSANDS OF YEARS AFTER BEING WRITTEN THEY REMAIN UNFULFILLED?

You are not claiming that the Bible represents God's Word to God, are you! You are claiming that the Bible represents God's Word to humankind. According to you God is therefore indicating that a time span of more than 50 human lifetimes should actually be understood to represent "soon." But you see, the Bible either means what it says and says what it means... or it doesn't. If the words in the Bible don't mean what they say, than that represents evidence that the Bible is inaccurate.

It would seem apparent that an omnipotent God that cannot accurately communicate His meanings is a God whose "Word" cannot be counted on. One might well wonder what conclusions the authors of scripture would have reached if they had known that their claims and expectations had not yet been met after the passage of thousands of years?

Wikipedia
Gullibility
Gullibility is a failure of social intelligence in which a person is easily tricked or manipulated into an ill-advised course of action. It is closely related to credulity, which is the tendency to believe unlikely propositions that are unsupported by evidence.

Classes of people especially vulnerable to exploitation due to gullibility include children, the elderly, and the developmentally disabled.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gullibility

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Or as George W. Bush put it: “There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.�

What does continuing to be fooled for thousands of years indicate?

[Avoice]

He had his second coming already.

When he supposedly came out of the cave after he died

Second coming already came and went. He did nothing then either. He wandered for a bit and had a bite to eat and left. Some Messiah. He can only help you after your dead. He doesn't deserve the title. Even Ive done more for Israel than he has.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 1 by Tart]


Why are you reading the book of Acts or Revelations about the messiah? Go to the book that is the final authority on the Messiah and Messianic age: the Hebrew Scriptures.

Thats where the knowledge of the Messiah originates. Go to the source. What? You think the Messiah us a Christian invention? No. They learned of him from the Jews. Then took the idea and turned him into a personal savior. Reciculous.

Put it this way: its lije stealing the Mona Lisa then painting in a different background. Changing her haircolor or what have you and then calling it the original painting by DiVinci. The concept of the Messiah came from the Jews. The Christian version of the messiah is non existant. Only in their hearts desire. When the Messiah comes it is the Jews who will be the first to know. Because they kniw what to look for. People can call Jesus the Messiah if they want. But no one is the messiah until the Jews say he is.
Keep your eyes on the Jews. If they are still waiting so will everyone else be. NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

[Avoice]

[Replying to post 4 by JehovahsWitness]

May i ask what prophecies have been fulfilled that is written of in revelations?

[JehovahsWitness]

...the Bible either means what it says and says what it means... or it doesn't.

I agree, but who are you to tell me what it means? You may share your opinon (as I have done above), but I hope you are not claiming you hold the monopoly on truth in biblical hermeneutics.

Free free to clarify if you are, although that might be somewhat difficult to prove.


JW