Scripture Alone is NOT Scriptural!

Saber Bob · Post by **Saber Bob** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:30 pm

One of the foundations of the Protestant Revolt (aka "Reformation") was that a Christian only needed a firm knowledge of Holy Scripture as guided by the Holy Spirit. No institution, let alone a corrupt heresy teaching "Church" could override this reliable rule of faith for believers...

But is it really?[/u]

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:15 pm

Yes, I say it is but also that Calvin and Luther didn't go far enough. It (reform) was important because the RCC could not be challenged except under pain of torture and death. Much like the Islam movement today at about the same time of development in years. Convert or die. Service were all in Latin(which no one knew, save a few) so any thing could be declared God's will per scripture. The Guttenberg press and the KJ at least gave the common folk the access to scripture that was denied by the church.

Not perfect but neither is either movement.

ttruscott · Post by **ttruscott** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:18 am

Much of the modern sola scriptura crowd now leave out the "as guided by the Holy Spirit" part and are quite content to decide on the meaning of any verse by applying their favourite doctrine by eisegesis...sigh.

Saber Bob · Post by **Saber Bob** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:11 am

[Replying to post 2 by brianbbs67]

While there are, here and there, a few kernals of truth in your post, there is also a lot of the "Black Legend", the largely English Reformation creation of the utterly repressive Catholic Church.

Saber Bob · Post by **Saber Bob** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:14 am

Ok, to start, let's begin my primary proposition, "Scripture Alone" as a rule of faith is not in Scripture.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:17 am

Saber Bob wrote: Ok, to start, let's begin my primary proposition, "Scripture Alone" as a rule of faith is not in Scripture.

I would agree that while scripture remains today our highest religious authority and absolutely no human is in a position to contradict it, God has in the past communicated through Prophets and Apostles.

We have no Prophets and Apostles today so all humans in any position of leadership must submit their teachings to the written word of God. There is absolutely nothing wrong with religious instructions, guidance and laws issued by "church" authoritues but they MUST be firmly based on scripture.

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:44 am

[Replying to post 6 by JehovahsWitness]

Scripture based the right way too. Where religious instructions, guidance and laws come from the scriptures. This is true doctrine based on scripture. Not where religious instructions, guidance and laws are made first and then scripture is searched out to support said doctrine. This is scripture based on doctrine and while it sounds like its right, it is not.

Saber Bob · Post by **Saber Bob** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:58 am

So, multiple contradictory teachings out there, all claiming the support of Scripture and all rightly interpreting the written Word of God.

Gets us nowhere.

Also, there's a big unproven assumption, namely that there is no Apostolic Authority left.

What did Christ say about when you had a disagreement about truth?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:16 pm

[Replying to post 8 by Saber Bob]

There should be no "disageement about truth" amongst followers of Christ, he said ..

"Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth" - John 17:17

If, as in the first century they have any difficulty understanding the truth, he told them to stick together and wait on holy spirit to properly reveal what Gods word is telling them. The bible model is that will be revealed and explained through those that take the lead. If any understanding contradicted established truth as revealed by Christ and communicated to the congregation through the Apostles and leading men of the first century congregation, it was to be rejected as false.

JW

William · Post by **William** » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:35 pm

[Replying to post 9 by JehovahsWitness]

The Script: "Sanctify them by means of the truth; your word is truth" - John 17:17

JehovahsWitness: If, as in the first century they have any difficulty understanding the truth, he told them to stick together and wait on holy spirit to properly reveal what Gods word is telling them. The bible model is that will be revealed and explained through those that take the lead. If any understanding contradicted established truth as revealed by Christ and communicated to the congregation through the Apostles and leading men of tge first that century congregation, it was to be rejected as false.

William: The problem with this kind of belief is that it is established through having to ignore facts which are recorded in the script and thus the 'established truth' has been so established through the process of ignoring the whole script and going off on a tangent.

Thus it can be regarded as Truth, that the established has wandered far from The Truth while claiming to be The Truth Established.

Rejecting things outside that 'established truth' as being 'false' was a necessary and effective part of the ruse Jesus warned his followers to look out for and not be deceived by.

Debating Christianity and Religion