Should Christians keep the law?

[otseng]

From the thread Keeping the commandments:

Do you keep the law?

Questions for debate:
Should Christians keep the law?
If so, how much of the laws should we keep?

[otseng]

I do have to say that if one wants to follow the bible(which should include God), then all followers of Christ would be Torah observant. Jesus led a Hebrew revival. He never spoke against the law. So, if you follow Yeshau, Joshua, Ieous, you follow the law of Moses. Unless, you wish to be least in the kingdom?

Yes, that's a good point. Jesus kept the laws of the Old Testament. As Christians, we're supposed to emulate Christ. So, shouldn't we also follow the laws of the OT?

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 1 by otseng]

Questions for debate:
Should Christians keep the law?
If so, how much of the laws should we keep?

Everyone should keep the Law.

How much of the Law? When God instituted the First Covenant with the Children of Israel, it included the 10 Commandments, the Judgments, which expounded the Commandments and the Statutes, to regulate a nation. They span Exodus 20-23; in Exodus 24, Moses ratifies the covenant and seals it in blood with the Children who agree that All that the Lord has said, we will do. That was the Law of the Covenant.
It was God's law, instituted from the beginning, not a law that was created at that time, because Abraham kept God's law. Genesis says:

Genesis 26:3-5 Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; (4) And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; (5) Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

The washings, the sacrifices and rituals were not instituted until AFTER the Children of Israel broke the Covenant that they had made a blood promise on them and on their children forever to keep. They were not even out of the gate and flat down in the mud. Game over. So, God instituted the washings, the sacrifices and rituals to impress upon them that there was a cost to sin and that sin brought death. And the sacrifices would suffice to bridge the gap until Shiloh come.

So we keep God's Law always (the 10 Commandments), And the Judgments, the Ordinances, the Statutes as best as we can as non citizens of whatever country we live in--for our citizenship is in a new City, whose builder and maker is God. We, as Christians, are expected to use those statutes to govern ourselves in a spiritual sense. The washings and sacrifices and temple rituals are no longer necessary at this time because 1) there is no temple, and 2) Christ is our propitiation for sins past. Paul did not do away with Circumcision. He merely pointed out that it was not necessary for grown men to become circumcised, as God had already given his Spirit to uncircumcised men and that going and becoming circumcised did not undo the fact that circumcision was to be done on the 8th day and no amount of backtracking can undo what you did or fix what wasn't done. You pick up and go forward, repenting of past sins and taking a better path. IOW, Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more.

In the New Testament, there are much more detailed and in depth judgments given by Christ, taking sin from a physical act to even a mental state. The law then comes to regulate everything you do and everything you think. It goes beyond human ability, hence the need for God's Spirit. That was always the implication in the OT, Exodus 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. God's law was supposed to be in everything you think, speak and and wherever you go, and all that you saw. They never got past the physical aspects of it. Christ expounds the law to such a depth, no man, can of himself, keep it... and yet, we are supposed to.

By the way, this is a great topic and I have really enjoyed reading it from start to finish... I will make one more comment. I don't recall who said it, but I read the Sabbath wasn't about the Love of man... or something to that effect. It is, indeed about the love of the Brethren, and even more importantly, about the Love of God. We are commanded, not only to observe and Keep the Sabbath, but to keep it Holy and it is a Commanded assembly of God's people to gather together and hear God's word expanded and to share a day with others of like mind. It is about fellowship with God and man... it is indeed all about love.

Soj

[brianbbs67]

I do have to say that if one wants to follow the bible(which should include God), then all followers of Christ would be Torah observant. Jesus led a Hebrew revival. He never spoke against the law. So, if you follow Yeshau, Joshua, Ieous, you follow the law of Moses. Unless, you wish to be least in the kingdom?

Here is what Jesus said about the Law Code.

Then Johns disciples came to him and asked: Why do we and the Pharisees practice fasting but your disciples do not fast? At this Jesus said to them: The friends of the bridegroom have no reason to mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them, do they? But days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast. Nobody sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old outer garment, for the new piece pulls away from the garment and the tear becomes worse. Nor do people put new wine into old wineskins. If they do, then the wineskins burst and the wine spills out and the wineskins are ruined. But people put new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved. - Matthew 9:14-17

The Mosaic Covenant of the Israelite times was fine for them. But things were about to change and a lot of it was not meant for a group of people that would be made up of people from around the world. What would be the point of forcing laws and festivals on people that have no bearing on them or that might even be nearly impossible for them to keep. Can you imagine some person in Spain trying to make to Jerusalem after having a child just do to the the purifying ritual? (Lev 12;6)

That doesn't cancel the law at all. Christ never spoke against the law. So you are now in God's authority to end it? If God makes a law, only God can resend it.

[brianbbs67]

[Replying to post 42 by Sojournerofthearth]

Yes, we know that the decalogue came directly and then the assembly said they could hear God's voice no more. 9 of the commands are easy to most people. I fail to understand why the Sabbath bothers so many. Its actually easy to do.

[Avoice]

I will answer your question with a question. Though my question answers your question. Niw that I've confused you and myself:

Why would they not want to keep it? It amazes me how Christians are content with not being under the law. For some reason they are more than happy to be rid if it. For some reason they think life is better without it. They need to quit listening to Paul. He called the law a curse! A curse...unbelievable!

[Sojournerofthearth]

[Replying to post 45 by Avoice]

They need to quit listening to Paul. He called the law a curse! A curse...unbelievable!

Paul kept the law. Paul kept the Holy Days. Paul taught on the Sabbath to Gentiles. Paul is simply trying to get them to see that it isn't our righteousness that saves us. As it says in Isaiah, Our righteousness is as filthy rags. Because he it's trying to take them to a higher plane...from merely keeping the letter of the law to understand even what goes on in our heads is sin... What we do matters, but what is in our hearts matters more... The intent matters. He was concerned about the foreskin on our hearts. Of course you still circumcise your son on the 8th day... But he was trying to get them to see beyond the physical acts of keeping the law to a place where even our thoughts were brought into line with the law.

[otseng]

They need to quit listening to Paul. He called the law a curse! A curse...unbelievable!

It would only be a curse if the law is used as a method of justification.

[Gal 3:10-11 KJV] 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

However, Paul had a high view of the law.

[Rom 7:12 KJV] 12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

[Rom 7:22 KJV] 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

We are justified only be grace, not by law. However, faith does not nullify the law.

[Rom 3:31 KJV] 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

We should still serve the law of God.

[Rom 7:25 KJV] 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

However, we should serve the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law.

[Rom 7:6 KJV] 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by otseng]

We Jehovahs Witnesses believe the Mosaic Law code has been abolished, we dont have to keep any of it. Christans are under Christian law.


JW

Then Jehovah's Witnesses do not follow Jesus:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

You don't keep any of the Mosaic Law? Then your religion teaches murder, theft, adultery? I doubt it.

I think timothy explained it quite well.

Jesus said that he came not to destroy the Law but to fulfill it. In other words, he had no interest in decimating the Law by ignoring it to the point of it being useless for anything, but he came to complete what the Law set in motion. He did fulfill the purpose of the Law. When he did, the Law was no longer hanging like an executioner's axe over the heads of the people. They were free because of what he did. To insist on clinging to the Law diminishes to nothing the sacrifice Jesus presented to his Father in the true Holy of Holies (Hebrews 9:11,12, 22-24).

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 21 by 2timothy316]

Yes, and if you love your neighbor as yourself, you will do everything that the Law has specified because if you truly love your neighbor you will not kill them, you will not steal from them, you will not commit adultery or pedophilia or such like, you will honor your parents, etc., etc.

[Avoice]

[Replying to onewithhim]

And if you loved your neighbor you wouldnt FAIL to tell them the first four commandments when asked what they were. Thats how much Jesus loves his neighbor. He failed to mention them. So did Paul

I dont know you. Never met you. But I care enough to tell you to have no other Gods before you. Of all the 10 commandments only one God begins by saying REMEMBER. Well Jesus forgot. And the church forgot. So I will love you. Remember to keep the Sabbath holy. And for the love of God (who gave this commandnent) tge Sabbath is Friday sundown ubtil Saturday sundown. Now you can believe its Sunday all you want. Nut the truth if thst is that Emperor Constantine if the 'great' Roman Empire commanded that be the churchs holy day.

Love your neighbor and go tell them the truth. Friday sundown to Saturday sundown . Refrain from working. (ie: shopping, business transactions and going to your job) God gives you six days to do all that. Now go love your neighbor as i have loved you.