Should Christians keep the law?

Post by **otseng** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:19 am

From the thread Keeping the commandments:

Tart wrote: Do you keep the law?

Questions for debate:
Should Christians keep the law?
If so, how much of the laws should we keep?

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:42 am

Donray wrote:
2timothy316 wrote:
Donray wrote: Could someone tell me where in the bible where God or Jesus says to not keep the laws????
"Furthermore, though you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcised state of your flesh, God made you alive together with him. He kindly forgave us all our trespasses and erased the handwritten document that consisted of decrees and was in opposition to us. He has taken it out of the way by nailing it to the torture stake." Col 2:13, 14

"That is why [Jesus] is a mediator of a new covenant, in order that because a death has occurred for their release by ransom from the transgressions under the former covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance." - Hebrews 9:15

Unless you don't believe Paul was writing down what Jehovah told him to write.
I guess you think that Paul is God??? Paul is not God.

No, he isn't but none of the Bible writers are. Yet don't all write down what God told them? So why listen to one and not the other?

Smythe · Post by **Smythe** » Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:50 pm

2timothy316 wrote: Yet don't all write down what God told them?

Well, such a claim is made in Revelation, but not in Paul or any of the Gospels.

AdHoc · Post by **AdHoc** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:11 am

otseng wrote: From the thread Keeping the commandments:

Tart wrote: Do you keep the law?
Questions for debate:
Should Christians keep the law?
If so, how much of the laws should we keep?

Could you pick a more difficult question for debate please? [/joking]

This question interests me a lot and I have discussed it with many people and my views have changed on it a few times and probably will again...

With that said the best answer I can give to that question is that we must keep God's moral law (i.e. the ten commandments) but not the ceremonial laws (e.g. wearing tassels on our clothes and not eating shellfish) See Matthew 23.

And in Matthew 22 Jesus told us which were the two most important laws. I think if one follows these two laws they would fulfill God's moral law. The problem is none of us can be perfect like God is perfect. So Jesus died for us and paid the price for our sin and gave us the Holy Spirit to help us.

In this way we don't have to follow the law like a person driving a car constantly reading the Motor Vehicle Act but drive with a guide that leads and helps us .

...and our conscience.

Sojournerofthearth · Post by **Sojournerofthearth** » Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:10 pm

Tcg wrote:
Donray wrote:
Where in the Bible does God or Jesus ay not to follow the laws????
Jesus did say this:

Mark 7:18 And he said to them, Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled? (Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20 And he said, What comes out of a person is what defiles him.

Although this seems to be more of a reinterpretation of the law rather than a recommendation to not follow it.

Tcg

I think one can safely assume, since He was addressing, first Pharisees and later His Jewish disciples, he was not speaking of unclean meats. In context, previously, He had said, to the Pharisees, Full well, you reject the Commandment of God that you may keep you OWN tradition. The elaborate washings were traditions. Nobody was speaking of a pork chop.

Soj

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:03 am

Sojournerofthearth wrote:
Tcg wrote:
Donray wrote:
Where in the Bible does God or Jesus ay not to follow the laws????
Jesus did say this:

Mark 7:18 And he said to them, Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled? (Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20 And he said, What comes out of a person is what defiles him.

Although this seems to be more of a reinterpretation of the law rather than a recommendation to not follow it.

Tcg
I think one can safely assume, since He was addressing, first Pharisees and later His Jewish disciples, he was not speaking of unclean meats. In context, previously, He had said, to the Pharisees, Full well, you reject the Commandment of God that you may keep you OWN tradition. The elaborate washings were traditions. Nobody was speaking of a pork chop.

Soj

Also, that part of the verse 7:19' ending may have been added later. But, that matters not as the Kione was Broma. Food approved by the law. So, all foods are clean but not all meat is food for us.

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:47 am

Smythe wrote:
2timothy316 wrote: Yet don't all write down what God told them?
Well, such a claim is made in Revelation, but not in Paul or any of the Gospels.

"Indeed, that is why we also thank God unceasingly, because when you received Gods word, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God, which is also at work in you believers." - 1 Thess 2:13

'Us'. That is more than one, so the Bible is in disagreement with you. All instruction recorded from all apostles can be 'accepted not as the word of men but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God'.

Smythe · Post by **Smythe** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:00 pm

2timothy316 wrote: "Indeed, that is why we also thank God unceasingly, because when you received Gods word, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God, which is also at work in you believers." - 1 Thess 2:13

Paul here is referring to his early visit to Thessalonica, not to any written scripture.

2timothy316 · Post by **2timothy316** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 5:19 pm

Smythe wrote:
2timothy316 wrote: "Indeed, that is why we also thank God unceasingly, because when you received Gods word, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but, just as it truthfully is, as the word of God, which is also at work in you believers." - 1 Thess 2:13

Paul here is referring to his early visit to Thessalonica, not to any written scripture.

So you think when Paul spoke he was delivering instruction from God but when wrote something down he didn't? That makes no sense and thus a weak defense.

Peter included what Paul wrote as 'the rest of the scriptures'. Peter also said that 'wisdom was given to him', meaning Paul. What you might not know is that many of the letters we read in the Bible today were called scriptures before they were all put together. They circulated around the 1st century congregations and they were known as scripture.

"And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom given to him, speaking of these things in all his letters. Some things in these letters are hard to understand, things the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they also do to the rest of the scriptures." (2 Peter 3:15-16 NET)

So your defense is not supported by the Bible. Yet Paul's writings as scripture is supported.

Avoice · Post by **Avoice** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:25 pm

[Replying to post 57 by Donray]

Yeah... show us where God said that.
Where God said it.

Avoice · Post by **Avoice** » Mon Dec 23, 2019 7:01 pm

[Replying to post 74 by Sojournerofthearth]

What is funny as that Christians accuse the Jews of things that THEY not THEM are guilty of. Christianity is nothing but a religion based on traditions of men. Jews may stumble at the law from time to time. But they'd never say the laws were abolished. Christians don't want to listen to God we get it. They love pork chops and bacon. Its shameful how over the centuries have made the Jews out to be haters of God.
The only way Christians can justify their contempt for the law requires that the Jews be wrong. THAT is the root of antisemitism. As long as they can perpetuate the Jews as evil then they can live ther lives free of the law and the feelings of guilt by being disobedient. VI dont think it's really intentional. Its subconscious. They know the law still stands even if they say it doesn't. If there was no law then they wouldn't think they needed Jesus. They are hiding behind Jesus because the law stands. If not then why do they need Jesus? Uh huh

In short, as long as people can blame the Jews then they don't have to face the truth. That it is they who have said no to God and refuse to hear him. It is the Jews who suffer for the sins of the world. They were hated by God. Why? For upholding the words God gave man at Nt Sinai. Thats why they are hated. They refuse to let go of the truth. If the world could just get rid of those Jews then they could finally live in peace. Where man can do what he wants abd no one can make them feel guilty.

Only God said the nation of Israel can not be destroyed. Those who seek to destroy Israel seek their own destruction

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Should Christians keep the law?

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