Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
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Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
Post #1There are some that refuse to accept that Jesus is God based on their beliefs. Yet many of these people still celebrate Christmas. So, is Christmas an act of worship to Jesus? If it is, then why would a person that doesn't accept Jesus as God worship Jesus?
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Re: Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
Post #21Blood sacrifice should not be conflated with holidays. I don't think any involved sacrifice except Yom Kippur, in the days of the Temple. Not anymore.onewithhim wrote: [Replying to post 12 by Elijah John]
We don't celebrate all the Jewish holidays basically because Jesus freed humans from the curse of the Law, and his sacrifice negated all of the ancient holidays. He fulfilled all of it. (And some of their holidays have nothing to do with Jehovah, as they were instituted by men.)
"For since the Law has a shadow of the good things to come, but not the very substance of the things, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered year after year, make those who approach perfect. Otherwise, would not the sacrifices have stopped being offered, because those rendering sacred service, once cleansed, would have no consciousness of sins anymore? On the contrary, these sacrifices are a reminder of sins year after year, for it is not possible for the blood of bulls and of goats to take sins away." (Hebrews 10:1-3)
What do you think. Did Jesus celebrate the Jewish holidays? Should his disciples follow his example in this? Or not.
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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Re: Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
Post #22[Replying to post 21 by Elijah John]
He celebrated the Jewish holidays up to the point that he fulfilled the Law by making his sacrifice (that replaced, once for all time, the sacrifice of bulls and goats).
So no, his disciples need not celebrate the old holidays. He gave us only one command to celebrate anything---that is his death. (Luke 22:19,20)
He celebrated the Jewish holidays up to the point that he fulfilled the Law by making his sacrifice (that replaced, once for all time, the sacrifice of bulls and goats).
So no, his disciples need not celebrate the old holidays. He gave us only one command to celebrate anything---that is his death. (Luke 22:19,20)
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Re: Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
Post #23Because we are no longer under the Law of Moses with all of it's festivals. If I lived in the days before Jesus Christ came to earth then I would.Elijah John wrote:So do you, as a JW celebrate all the Jewish holidays? You know, the ones that YHVH instituted?2timothy316 wrote:So you're ok that the religion that instituted Christmas and the majority of Christendom view Jesus as God? You're also ok to absorb that ritual as part of your own religion?Checkpoint wrote:No, such Christians do not worship Jesus. I am one of them.2timothy316 wrote: There are some that refuse to accept that Jesus is God based on their beliefs. Yet many of these people still celebrate Christmas. So, is Christmas an act of worship to Jesus? If it is, then why would a person that doesn't accept Jesus as God worship Jesus?
Christians who celebrate in this way are celebrating his birth by remembering that event and its significance.
They remember how and why it came about and who sent him.
They also remember how it was revealed and celebrated at the time, as recorded by Matthew and Luke, and rejoice as those then did.
The issue of whether Jesus is or is not God has nothing to do with Christmas.
I find all of this intriguing how people justify a holiday no 1st century Christian nor Christ himself celebrated. Folks know Christmas is not based on anything Biblical or a Christian origin but no one seems to care...
Why not?
.
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Re: Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
Post #24Checkpoint wrote:I made no assumptions, I asked questions which you didn't answer. Instead you got defensive which revels an attitude that needs urgent attention. Can you answer my questions please? Yes or no will do. Acceptable answers are, 'No I'm not fine with it' or 'yes I'm fine with it.' Either way you answer it will conclude this discussion. But with you leaving the question unanswered it leaves your final stance on the subject in limbo.2timothy316 wrote:Checkpoint wrote:No, such Christians do not worship Jesus. I am one of them.2timothy316 wrote: There are some that refuse to accept that Jesus is God based on their beliefs. Yet many of these people still celebrate Christmas. So, is Christmas an act of worship to Jesus? If it is, then why would a person that doesn't accept Jesus as God worship Jesus?
Christians who celebrate in this way are celebrating his birth by remembering that event and its significance.
They remember how and why it came about and who sent him.
They also remember how it was revealed and celebrated at the time, as recorded by Matthew and Luke, and rejoice as those then did.
The issue of whether Jesus is or is not God has nothing to do with Christmas.Such conclusions, such assumptions about me, and the loaded way you presented them, reveal an attitude that needs urgent attention.So you're ok that the religion that instituted Christmas and the majority of Christendom view Jesus as God? You're also ok to absorb that ritual as part of your own religion?
So you're ok that the religion that instituted Christmas and the majority of Christendom view Jesus as God? You're also ok to absorb that ritual as part of your own religion?
I await your answers.
Last edited by 2timothy316 on Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
Post #25Yet none of it celebrated by the apostles or 1st century Christians. The date is wrong, the reason Christmas was even instituted has nothing to do with the events of the Bible. Over the past 2000 years Christmas' became so controversial it was banned on more than one occasion. It's a melting pot of pagan rituals that are not firmly based in the Bible. There were no 3 wise men. We don't know how many magi there were. Folks just read the 3 gifts and think there were only 3 but there is nothing to support this. There was no baby in a manger in late December. It would have died from exposure. So while the events are carefully recorded in the Bible, the celebration is not 'carefully' celebrated. Instead it's a mashup of lies to children, coverups of old pagan dates, and peppered with unscrptureal pagan rituals that come from all sorts of lands. It's not even unified wordwide on how to celebrate it. It seems you can just toss in whatever ritual you want.Checkpoint wrote:
Folks know that Christmas celebrations are firmly based on events that were carefully recorded by Matthew and Luke.
So many things about Christmas is not Bible based. In fact most of the rituals people added to Christmas are only a few hundred years old. I would not even call Christmas even remotely related to Jesus' birth. But what it does do is put Jesus as the center of all of it, as a God. Which appears to be it's purpose. No mention of his Father whom he loved more than himself. No mention of the Good News of the Kingdom that he preached.
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Re: Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
Post #26[Replying to post 11]
2timothy316: True worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.
William: What does that mean? Does it mean that it is acceptable to print images of entities as they are imagined to be, and circulate these images in an effort to spread a religious organisations message that people are at risk by not being part of said religious organisations?
2timothy316: It means we should worship in truth and in spirit.
William: How is one to argue the True Scotsman? One judges in their heart who are the 'true worshipers' and who are 'false' and by doing so are able to make declarations as to who's images of The Creator are 'true' and who's are 'false'?
2timothy316: How much of the things used in Christmas is true? 10%? 90%?
William: How much truth is there in the images of your particular sect of Christianity? 10%? 90%?
Standing back to survey what is presented, who can tell?
2timothy316: How much of our activities should be based in truth when it comes to what we believe?
William: What 'truth'? If one declares the Bible "The Word of God" one has already strayed from The Spirit and The Truth.
Any judgement one then has about the worlds customs, is irreverent at that point.
2timothy316: Actual truth, not the personal fake truth everyone seems to be so fond of today.
William: How can one tell the difference between one's own 'actual truth' and others 'personal fake truth'?
2timothy316: The fact that you don't understand what it means is why you celebrate Christmas.
William: I don't celebrate Christmas, so wherein your comment is The Truth of this 'Fact'?
Your comment is an example of the precise reason why Jesus said "Do Not Judge."
2timothy316: Note the scripture also says, 'worship the Father'. How much do you hear about Jesus' Father during Christmas?
William: Since when is 'hearing about The Father' any indication of someone who 'worships in spirit and in truth'?
If you cannot see The Father in The Son, - then according to The Son, you have not seen The Father.
One is left with having to worship made-up images of The Father...such as this one:
[center]
[/center]
William: Which, incidentally, is not too different from this one;
[center]
[/center]
William: Which is another example of why Jesus stressed the importance of "Do Not Judge" because he knows that doing so blinds one to their own hypocrisy. The similar practices of 'false worship' they do not see of themselves, but are still able to recognize of others.
I would seriously urge one to reconsider being involved with any sect which allows for the practice of judgmentalism.
2timothy316: True worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.
William: What does that mean? Does it mean that it is acceptable to print images of entities as they are imagined to be, and circulate these images in an effort to spread a religious organisations message that people are at risk by not being part of said religious organisations?
2timothy316: It means we should worship in truth and in spirit.
William: How is one to argue the True Scotsman? One judges in their heart who are the 'true worshipers' and who are 'false' and by doing so are able to make declarations as to who's images of The Creator are 'true' and who's are 'false'?
2timothy316: How much of the things used in Christmas is true? 10%? 90%?
William: How much truth is there in the images of your particular sect of Christianity? 10%? 90%?
Standing back to survey what is presented, who can tell?
2timothy316: How much of our activities should be based in truth when it comes to what we believe?
William: What 'truth'? If one declares the Bible "The Word of God" one has already strayed from The Spirit and The Truth.
Any judgement one then has about the worlds customs, is irreverent at that point.
2timothy316: Actual truth, not the personal fake truth everyone seems to be so fond of today.
William: How can one tell the difference between one's own 'actual truth' and others 'personal fake truth'?
2timothy316: The fact that you don't understand what it means is why you celebrate Christmas.
William: I don't celebrate Christmas, so wherein your comment is The Truth of this 'Fact'?
Your comment is an example of the precise reason why Jesus said "Do Not Judge."
2timothy316: Note the scripture also says, 'worship the Father'. How much do you hear about Jesus' Father during Christmas?
William: Since when is 'hearing about The Father' any indication of someone who 'worships in spirit and in truth'?
If you cannot see The Father in The Son, - then according to The Son, you have not seen The Father.
One is left with having to worship made-up images of The Father...such as this one:
[center]

William: Which, incidentally, is not too different from this one;
[center]

William: Which is another example of why Jesus stressed the importance of "Do Not Judge" because he knows that doing so blinds one to their own hypocrisy. The similar practices of 'false worship' they do not see of themselves, but are still able to recognize of others.
I would seriously urge one to reconsider being involved with any sect which allows for the practice of judgmentalism.
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Re: Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
Post #27[Replying to post 26 by William]
Um so the images, I know one is Santa. Who is the other supposed to be? Not much of an idol if it's not clear who it is.
Um so the images, I know one is Santa. Who is the other supposed to be? Not much of an idol if it's not clear who it is.
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Re: Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
Post #28[Replying to post 25 by 2timothy316]
That is what they focus on, rather than on "rituals people added".
People of this system also remember and celebrate Christmas, with their own rituals, including an occasional annual visit to church, where the focus is to "put Jesus as the center".
Maybe, just maybe, this is for them a God-arranged appointment that results in yet another passing from death to life.
All things are possible with God.
Grace and peace to you.
So many things about Christmas are indeed Bible-based. Those are what most Christians remember and celebrate.So many things about Christmas is not Bible based. In fact most of the rituals people added to Christmas are only a few hundred years old. I would not even call Christmas even remotely related to Jesus' birth. But what it does do is put Jesus as the center of all of it, as a God. Which appears to be it's purpose. No mention of his Father whom he loved more than himself. No mention of the Good News of the Kingdom that he preached.
That is what they focus on, rather than on "rituals people added".
People of this system also remember and celebrate Christmas, with their own rituals, including an occasional annual visit to church, where the focus is to "put Jesus as the center".
Maybe, just maybe, this is for them a God-arranged appointment that results in yet another passing from death to life.
All things are possible with God.
Grace and peace to you.
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Re: Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
Post #29Checkpoint wrote:
So many things about Christmas are indeed Bible-based. Those are what most Christians remember and celebrate.
Such as? Granted, at Christmas time religious people often say (or sing) words that can also be found in the bible such as the word "Jesus", "God" and shepherd" but I fail to see anything in the religious celebrations themselves that are actualy bible based. At the most, being charitable I could say that possibly some of the Christmas hymns have a resemblance to the bible narrative ....
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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Re: Is Christmas a Form of Worship to Jesus Christ?
Post #30rJehovahsWitness wrote:Checkpoint wrote:
So many things about Christmas are indeed Bible-based. Those are what most Christians remember and celebrate.
Such as? Granted, at Christmas time religious people often say (or sing) words that can also be found in the bible such as the word "Jesus", "God" and shepherd" but I fail to see anything in the religious celebrations themselves that are actualy bible based. At the most, being charitable I could say that possibly some of the Christmas hymns have a resemblance to the bible narrative ....
Such as what is written in those narratives found in Matthew and Luke.
Yes, you do "fail to see", as do others like-minded.
As did I when I held the same view of Christmas.
Once I was blind, but now I see.
Grace and peace to you.