Is the Jehovah Witness Religion a Christian Religion?

[polonius]

Do Jehovah Witnesses consider Jesus Christ to be God? If so, does it maintain that there are two divine persons? God and Jesus Christ?

Are both God and Jesus eternal and coequal?

[historia]

[T]here was always someone on Earth that believed as we do now. So we are not a "new" sect.

Who in late Antiquity believed as you do now? Who in the High Middle Ages?

I believe that Sir Isaac Newton is very possibly one of the persons that believed as we do.

I asked for examples from late Antiquity and the High Middle Ages.

So who were the people on earth that could be called the "fine wheat," or, "the sons of the Kingdom," throughout the centuries? We don't know.

Then how can you claim that there was always someone on Earth that believed as you do now?

[brianbbs67]

I will add to this discussion that the Followers of the Way of Christ began this religion. I think we all can agree on that thing.

They were predominately Jews. They worshipped in the synagogues and observed the Holy days. This is why Peter was not concerned with the new gentile converts as "moses has had those who teach him in every synagogue". Act 15.

They continued in the Hebrew tradition until at least 135 AD. The Bar Kochba revolt cause those of the way to have to make a choice of continuing with Yeshua or declaring a new Messiah. They were rejected for choosing christ. The rebellion was crushed, Rome had already sacked Jerusalem and then the Apostles died off or were killed.

So, the Jews went back into the norm of their day and the Greeks and Romans created what we have today under the pain of death.

True followers of the Way of Christ, follow Christ.(Israelite religion without traditions of men, pure Torah) What was nailed to the cross was "the Handwriting of Ordinances against Us". This was written on parchment and placed outside the ark of covenant. Rules(Torah) written in stone(in the ark) and punishment for trangressing(sin) them on paper. Christ erased the paper.

So, if we wish to follow Christ, should we not follow his way? He gave no instruction otherwise. In fact, he said not one jot or tittle would pass till all the law prophets come to pass. They have not. Logically, we have the Torah to follow.

[JehovahsWitness]

What I find rather hard going is the claim that there were always, down through the centuries, those who believed "as you(JWs) do now"

Maybe I should clarify, we are not saying that there were Christians throughout the ages that identified all the truths we do now in 2020. Even Jehovahs Witnesses of 50 years ago didn't believe everything Jehovahs Witnesses do now, how much less individual held spiritual captives in the belly of the beast 1000 or 500 years ago (many with little or no access to scripture).

What we are saying is there have been individuals that have studied the holy bible and have understood some of the truths we (JW) hold today. If only, as was the case of many of the Catholic and Protestant translators, that the bible (not the church) is the ultimate dictate of religious truth or that Jesus is not part of a trinity.

Also we hold that (and I'm sure you agree with Jehovahs Witnesses on this point) throughout the ages there have been sincere Christians that have loved God and stood for truth as best they understood it and who God would have chosen as his born again children. In short that this planet has never been completely void of true believers even if as Jesus said, they have been "growing amongst the weeds" with a far from complete understandjng of bible truths.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 52 by JehovahsWitness]

Jesus indicated in his illustrations of the wheat and the weeds that he would wait for the "harvest season" to reorganisation his followers in time for his return.

Nope. There is no such indication in that parable or in its explanation.

Didn't Jesus say that the "weeds" would be revealed at "harvest time," and the true sons of the Kingdom would "shine brightly?" There is definitely a differentiation between the weeds and the wheat.


.

What Jesus did not say is "the "harvest season" to reorganisation his followers in time for his return.

Of course there is differentation between weeds and wheat. Not one between true and false Christians, but between sons of the kingdom and sons of the evil one.

[JehovahsWitness]

What Jesus did not say is "the "harvest season" to reorganisation his followers in time for his return.

No he didn't one needs to analyse what he did say to come to that conclusion.

Reorganise his followers: Jesus said that he would identify and then gather into his storehouse the wheat. We interpret those "storehouse" to be the true Christian congregations (which for many centuries did not exist as an organised entity). Christianity however was not "invented" at this time, the bible makes it clear, Jesus founded the true church in the first century, when he himself gathered his first followers and commissioned them to do the same. The book of Acts testifies this is what those first century Christians did in fact do..... so what word could we use for this "harvest gathering" since it was not the first gathering period initiated by Jesus? ... I chose the word reorganized. "Re" because it wasn't the first time and organize, for when individuals are gathered for a common purpose, "organize"/organization is a fitting word.

Before his return ...Jesus himself said the harvest represent "the conclusion of the system" of things and since it is he himself that destroys this wicked system we can conclude these events happen before his return for that very purpose purpose.



JW

[Checkpoint]

What I find rather hard going is the claim that there were always, down through the centuries, those who believed "as you(JWs) do now"

Maybe I should clarify, we are not saying that there were Christians throughout the ages that identified all the truths we do now in 2020. Even Jehovahs Witnesses of 50 years ago didn't believe everything Jehovahs Witnesses do now, how much less individual held spiritual captives in the belly of the beast 1000 or 500 years ago (many with little or no access to scripture).

What we are saying is there have been individuals that have studied the holy bible and have understood some of the truths we (JW) hold today. If only, as was the case of many of the Catholic and Protestant translators, that the bible (not the church) is the ultimate dictate of religious truth or that Jesus is not part of a trinity.

Also we hold that (and I'm sure you agree with Jehovahs Witnesses on this point) throughout the ages there have been sincere Christians that have loved God and stood for truth as best they understood it and who God would have chosen as his born again children. In short that this planet has never been completely void of true believers even if as Jesus said, they have been "growing amongst the weeds" with a far from complete understandjng of bible truths.


JEHOVAHS WITNESS

Yes, if you ad made this clear from the start it would have been so much beter.

Nonetheless, thankyou; great job this time.

[marco]

[Replying to post 55 by Checkpoint]

We can't say with certainty who any of the true Christians were. But we sure know who HASN'T been.

Have you ever looked up the histories of the individual popes? I thought the Borgias were bad, and then I read about most of the other popes, and they were just as bad. Murder, immorality in spades, scheming to destroy people in their way, greed....they were almost all guilty of every one of the deadly sins.

So who were the people on earth that could be called the "fine wheat," or, "the sons of the Kingdom," throughout the centuries? We don't know. Someday I'm confident that we will find out.

God, I understand, has always worked through imperfect vessels. David would answer to your description of nastiness as well. Of course there have been bad popes and there have been good popes. Place a man in the spotlight and you will see blemishes. I wonder what murderous deeds the present pope has done.

When we crudely use the word "all" we should be alerted to error. In all places, in all religions, there are good people and bad people. When we set ourselves up as outstanding examples of piety we become like the Pharisee who proclaimed his own worth.

[marco]

Jesus founded the true church in the first century, when he himself gathered his first followers and commissioned them to do the same.

You are enunciating the position of the RC Church who take Peter as their first pope and take Christ's words as their authority: "Thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church..." And so the RC Church came into being. It imitates Peter's perfections and imperfections but has stood the test of time, lasting a lot longer than a century of so.

In fairness if we have to choose a Christian religion that seems the truest, the RC church would win on longevity alone. Something that mushroomed in modern times might make us smile, for it lacks that stern, ancient authority. So yes, one can call JW a Christian religion, but had not the RC Church shone through the centuries, Christianity would not be with us in any form and so JWs are offspring of Catholicism.

[JehovahsWitness]

I would agree, true believer cannot be perfect, they weren't in the past and they aren't now. Still God has had an organisation in the past and we believe he has one today. One that doesn't burn bibles or people at the stake or engage in any of the other godless activities that marked religion in the middle ages.



JW

[JehovahsWitness]

In fairness if we have to choose a Christian religion that seems the truest, the RC church would win on longevity alone.

Longevity is one thing what disqualifies a church biblically speaking from being from God. The only church that would have a 15 hundred year uninterrupted run, according to bible prophecy would be the the "antichrist"/ apostate Christianity part if the great whore (or prostitute) of Babylon.



JW



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