Is the Jehovah Witness Religion a Christian Religion?

[polonius]

Do Jehovah Witnesses consider Jesus Christ to be God? If so, does it maintain that there are two divine persons? God and Jesus Christ?

Are both God and Jesus eternal and coequal?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 167 by brianbbs67]

We have been misled for 2000 years.

We have? Who misled us for such a long time?

You mean regarding "The Way"?

Who uncovered "the truth" we had been misled about?

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 159 by tam]

JWs DO listen to Christ. How can you say we do not?

I'm sorry, but what words of mine from post 159 are you referring to here?

[onewithhim]

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 159 by tam]

JWs DO listen to Christ. How can you say we do not?

I'm sorry, but what words of mine from post 159 are you referring to here?

You admonish Jehovah's Witnesses to "Listen to Christ!"


.

[tam]

Peace to you,

Peace to you,

[Replying to post 159 by tam]

JWs DO listen to Christ. How can you say we do not?

I'm sorry, but what words of mine from post 159 are you referring to here?

You admonish Jehovah's Witnesses to "Listen to Christ!"


.

I do not think you are following the line of conversation.

A - In context, what I said was this:

I do not even TRY to interpret scripture; I would be wrong. If my Lord shares something with me - or opens something to me so that I understand what is meant - then I know HIS word on the matter is true, and I am not interpreting it myself. But from your pov, you should certainly take these matters to Him. Test the inspired expression. I am not the truth after all! I am just a servant. What if I did misunderstand?

Listen to Christ!

This was in response to JW accusing me (among other things) of thinking of myself as the "pope". Not because I said anything untrue though; just because I pointed out that it makes no sense to say that you have 'the truth' when you have a mixture of true and false things. How was I out of line to emphasize (as I have always stated) that one should listen to Christ?


B - What did I do on this thread other than state that I did not see how it could be possible that you have the truth (according to the definition that you gave), when your religion teaches some truth and some error (something that JW confirmed when she said that 'sometimes we get it right and sometimes we get it wrong)? Instead of addressing that observation, JW has tried to shift the focus by accusing me of considering myself the 'pope' (among other things), and even making insinuations about my mental health. Only to turn around and then take umbrage because (at least) some of those accusations turned out to instead fit the Governing Body of the JW religion.


Even you accused me of listening to a manipulative spirit recently - not because I said anything untrue; not because I said anything that is in conflict with Christ and His word, but only because what I shared is in conflict with the traditions and teachings of your religion.


C - I could say that jws are not listening to Christ in instances where you are in fact not listening to Christ (such as the command to eat and drink and to keep doing that in remembrance of Him). But I would point out His word if and when I did this. What you do with that is not up to me, and I am not judging.

If one wants to SEE, then the One to purchase eye salve from is Christ Himself (Rev 3:18)





Peace still to you,
- a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

....it makes no sense to say that you have 'the truth' when you have a mixture of true and false things.

If we do, so do you!

Have you never, in your entire life of being a Christian been wrong on a matter of faith or bible understanding?

EPHESIANS - New American Standard Bible

And He [Christ] gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers

• Do you propose that everyone in the above groups would only make infallible utterances on all matters of faith? (See Act 15:1,2)
• Did Jesus say infallibility would be the identifying mark of true Christians? If not why not? (see John 13:35)
• Did Jesus ever implie anyone other than The Almighty had a complete understanding of all things? (Mat 24:36 compare 1 Cor 13:8-13)
• Did Jesus ever implie that those that only had as partial understanding or were subject to error would be disqualified from representing him as his chosen people?(see Mark 14:31; Acts 1:6)

JW

[tam]

Peace to you,

....it makes no sense to say that you have 'the truth' when you have a mixture of true and false things.

If we do, so do you!

You are continuing to miss the point.

1 - If I said something false it would not validate something you said that is false.

2 - I have not said "I have the truth". It would not occur to me to say this. Christ is the Truth. He is the One who will lead His people into all truth. So He would be the One who has the truth (and who IS the Truth).

No other person or religion can make those claims.



I could say that I am in the Truth - because Christ is the Truth and I am in Christ.

Have you never, in your entire life of being a Christian been wrong on a matter of faith or bible understanding?

Yes.


No person is infallible - except Christ (and His Father).


Hence my Lord teaches me to test the inspired expression (against His teaching; against love) and to hold all things up against Him (the Light).


A person may also carry baggage (former religious teachings that have become deeply entrenched things)... and those can interfere with hearing and accepting what is true. This is why - if and when one comes to Christ - one should just tear everything down to the foundation cornerstone (Christ). Then let HIM build them (and their faith) back up upon Him (the Truth).


But what does that have to do with me questioning your use of the phrase 'we have the truth', when admittedly you have some true things and some false things?

EPHESIANS - New American Standard Bible

And He [Christ] gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers

• Do you propose that everyone in the above groups would only make infallible utterances on all matters of faith? (See Act 15:1,2)
• Did Jesus say infallibility would be the identifying mark of true Christians? If not why not? (see John 13:35)
• Did Jesus ever implie anyone other than The Almighty had a complete understanding of all things? (Mat 24:36 compare 1 Cor 13:8-13)
• Did Jesus ever implie that those that only had as partial understanding or were subject to error would be disqualified from representing him as his chosen people?(see Mark 14:31; Acts 1:6)

You keep trying to make this about something I never said to begin with.


The statement 'we have the truth' is in fact an untrue statement. That is all.


But I suppose 'we have some truth and some falsehood' is not as great a selling (or keeping) point as 'we have the truth'.




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

Have you never, in your entire life of being a Christian been wrong on a matter of faith or bible understanding?

Yes, having listened to someone (including my own self) instead of to my Lord, or having not tested the inspired expression as my Lord has instructed me to do.

So you believed falsehoods, you spoke in error (even if it were only to yourslef) ...are you not asking us "how can you claim to be a servant of God if you have taught what is false!?" Yet You here admit You have done the same! You were wrong once you may be wrong again. You might even be wrong on the matter of who is "speaking" to you.

I'm not saying you are, I'm not saying you aren't... but you have been right about some things and wrong about some things. We have have been right about some things and wrong about some things. The only difference is you claim to be the very mouthpiece through which Almighty God himself speaks his infallible truths through divine revelation.

Neither Jehovahs Witnesses nor the Pope of Rome dares go to that far!

[JehovahsWitness]

The statement 'we have the truth' is in fact an untrue statement. That is all.

Well that would depend it what is meant by the expression. The way we (Jehovahs Witnesses) use (or should use) the expression, it is absolutely true. Or at least that is what we believe to be true; and we reserve the right to say it anytime we want. You, of course have the right to disagree but if you suggest there is something unscriptural about the way we use the term ... I'll be right here to respond.

As for our Governing Body practically everything they have produced (and nearly all the Watchtowers ever written) is online. If you accuse them of teaching something that is unscriptural forgive me for expecting a direct quote with your accusation. I think you know me enough to know am well able to address specifics but I have no time for aspersions, innuendo or accusations that are based on an ignorance of our organisation or the beliefs of those in it.

Have yourself a most excellent evening,

JW

[2timothy316]

Have you never, in your entire life of being a Christian been wrong on a matter of faith or bible understanding?

Yes, having listened to someone (including my own self) instead of to my Lord, or having not tested the inspired expression as my Lord has instructed me to do.

So you believed falsehoods, you spoke in error (even if it were only to yourslef) ...are you not askjng us "how can you claim to be a servant of God if you have taught what is false!?" Yet You here admit You have done the same! You were wrong once you may be wrong again. You might even be wrong on the matter of who is "speaking" to you.

I'm not saying you are, I'm not saying you aren't... but you have been right about some things and wrong about some things. We have have been right about some things and wrong about some things. The only difference is you claim to be the mouthpiece through which Almighty God himself speaks his infallible truths through divine revelation.

Neither Jehovahs Witnesses nor the Pope of Rome dares go to that far!

There are two sources of where Jehovah's Witnesses get the whole 'the truth' idea.

First:
3 John 2-4 says, "Beloved one, I pray that in all things you continue to prosper and enjoy good health, just as you are now prospering. For I rejoiced very much when brothers came and bore witness about the truth you hold, as you go on walking in the truth. No greater joy do I have than this: that I should hear that my children go on walking in the truth."

1 John 1:6. says that one will or will not 'practice the truth'.

Second:
The other source for the saying is a very popular book that was published 40 years ago called "The Truth that Leads to Eternal Life". It was known as 'The Truth Book'. Many people learned 'the Truth' using that book as a study aid. It seems 'the Truth' had a nice ring to it and many JWs today use that term to describe their religion.

Though in reality, any true Jehovah's Witnesses knows we are not source of truth but that we walk in the truth. What is the truth? Jesus speaking about the his Father said, “Your word is truth.� (John 17:17) Witnesses see this as the Bible, not ourselves. We as Witnesses who have been 'Walking in truth' or to the best of our ability, have shortened 'walking in truth' over the years to staying in 'the Truth'. Many religions claim to walk in the word of God, the Bible, but in my research Jehovah's Witnesses as a group is the only one I have found that are diligently trying their hardest to 'walk in truth'.

So in short it is not the people that are the truth, it what the people are walking in or following that is the truth. JWs don't own it they don't cause to become truth. They have however in my opinion found it and strive to walk in it. Should a person say, JWs are the truth to another person that is not a JW? Probably not, but when a fellow JW says it to me I know what they mean. It used to stumble me years ago, Witnesses saying they are the truth. But it doesn't stumble me anymore once I studied the Bible and understood what walking in truth meant. Staying in the truth is not so much staying in the JW religion but walking in the truth of the Bible. Which, if one is walking in the truth of the Bible they will find themselves walking with Jehovah's Witnesses. Real truth comes from the effort to try to please God using the Bible and not some personal doctrine or some other unscriptureal religious doctrine. 2 Peter 1:21 says that no prophecy has come from the will of men but only men that were moved to speak by God's holy spirit. The only place that can be found is the Bible.

[tam]

Peace to you,

...are you not askjng us "how can you claim to be a servant of God if you have taught what is false!?"

I did not ask you that. I asked how you can say you have the truth when you teach some truth and some falsehood. You could say that you have some truth; but how could you say that you have THE truth? Does truth contain lies?

To refresh your memory (and anyone reading who might need it), OWH said:

We say we have the truth because we have studied the Scriptures long and hard, and we realize that we are the only religion that follows exactly what Christ taught.

I responded:

But thank you for answering my question and providing an explanation of what you mean when you say 'we have the truth'. I don't think that can be possible, since your religion has taught incorrect (untrue) things, even if you were just to acknowledge untrue teachings from the past (though there would be no reason to think that errors would not still be occurring).

That is all I said which prompted you to launch false accusations and insinuations against me.


**

You might even be wrong on the matter of who is "speaking" to you.

I know the One who is speaking to me (Christ Jaheshua, the Holy One of God). He said that His sheep listen to His voice; He said that He calls His sheep by name; and He has only ever spoken in truth. He has never led me wrong (I go wrong if I do not heed Him). He is the One to whom my Father in heaven sent me when I asked to know His Truth.

I'm not saying you are, I'm not saying you aren't... but you have been right about some things and wrong about some things. We have have been right about some things and wrong about some things. The only difference is you claim to be the mouthpiece through which Almighty God himself speaks his infallible truths through divine revelation.

Neither Jehovahs Witnesses nor the Pope of Rome dares go to that far!

There are more differences than that (but some these are mentioned in my previous posts). That being said, you seem to be having trouble keeping track of who has said what.


THIS is what I said:

Christ speaks (and is) the word of God. Christ interprets scripture for those who listen to Him and Christ opens the scriptures. Out of HIS mouth (Christ Jaheshua) we hear infallible faultless absolute truth of God.

THIS is what your religion says:

GOD SPEAKS THROUGH HIS ORGANIZATION TODAY

What they are telling people is what God in his Word says; he is the one talking.

So, too, God uses men to speak to those within the congregation of believers. For example, when overseers in the Christian congregation counsel their fellow believers, who really is speaking? Well, who designated them as overseers? It is God’s Word that set out the qualifications. If they are serving because they meet those qualifications, they are designated by God. When they give counsel in harmony with the Scriptures, it is God who is speaking by means of them.

There are such persons today through whom God is speaking. By means of them you received this magazine.

Your life depends on finding out who today are truly God’s servants that speak his Word and becoming one of them.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1967081

In all such ways the Watch Tower Society is serving God’s purpose as an efficient legal instrument of his dedicated and anointed servants who are the true channel of communication of Jehovah God today.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1958602


Peace still to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy