JESUS IS NOT GOD

[onewithhim]

I would very much like to get opinions on this subject. I'll provide several verses from the King James Version of the Bible, and I ask you to give me feed-back.


Jesus' words:

1) "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." (John 5:19)

2) "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)

3) "Neither came I of myself, but he sent me." (John 8:42)

He replied, after the Pharisees accused him of making himself God:
4) "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the SON of God?" (John 10:36)

5) "For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say....Whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak." (John 12:49,50)

6) To his Father in prayer: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God , and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

7) "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God." (John 20:17)

To John in the Revelation:
8) "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God..." (Revelation 3:12)



Do these quotations show that Jesus was NOT God?

Do YOU believe that he claimed to be God?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1912]
God also gave Jesus the name above every name. If Jesus was God, he wouldn't have to be GIVEN a higher position than he had before. The Father, God, calls all the shots, so to speak.

Marke: God commanded all the heavenly host to bow down and worship Jesus.

Yes, but not as God Almighty. He deserves love and respect, absolutely, but not as the one true God. That level of worship goes to the Most High, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1927]

Do you see my point? Humans are all equal in the eyes of God, but not in the eyes of humans. There is a definite difference in their eyes. We don't think that the President is any better a human than a custodian at a school, but the President has more authority than the custodian. They are not equal in this world as it is now. So it trumps your view that all are equal.

Yes, all humans are equal in the eyes of God.
As to human eye, are we not equal in dignity and rights in legal sense within same country and laws?
If President Trump gives all authority to Elon Musk, they would be equal, but law prohibit it.
The Father had given all the authority and power to Jesus, and if "all" is 100%=100%, that would be equal.
But in relation, the Father, remain as the father and the Son remain as the son. (relational subordination)

"All" power and authority is not 100%. It would be the measure of authority that Jehovah sees fit to give to his Son. It is all the authority that Jesus is given, whatever percentage that is.

[Capbook]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1927]

Do you see my point? Humans are all equal in the eyes of God, but not in the eyes of humans. There is a definite difference in their eyes. We don't think that the President is any better a human than a custodian at a school, but the President has more authority than the custodian. They are not equal in this world as it is now. So it trumps your view that all are equal.

Yes, all humans are equal in the eyes of God.
As to human eye, are we not equal in dignity and rights in legal sense within same country and laws?
If President Trump gives all authority to Elon Musk, they would be equal, but law prohibit it.
The Father had given all the authority and power to Jesus, and if "all" is 100%=100%, that would be equal.
But in relation, the Father, remain as the father and the Son remain as the son. (relational subordination)

"All" power and authority is not 100%. It would be the measure of authority that Jehovah sees fit to give to his Son. It is all the authority that Jesus is given, whatever percentage that is.

So, do you mean "all" is not "all"?
Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary define "all", in Greek "pas" means as the whole, every, including all, etc.
The whole is to me 100%. Is 99% whole to you?
If we say the whole earth, is USA excluded?

John 16:15
15 "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said, that He takes of Mine, and will disclose it to you.
NASB

NT:3956 pas
pas (pas); including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole:
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

[marke]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1912]
God also gave Jesus the name above every name. If Jesus was God, he wouldn't have to be GIVEN a higher position than he had before. The Father, God, calls all the shots, so to speak.

Marke: God commanded all the heavenly host to bow down and worship Jesus.

Yes, but not as God Almighty. He deserves love and respect, absolutely, but not as the one true God. That level of worship goes to the Most High, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

Marke: God commanded all creatures to worship Jesus. If you have a problem with that then the issue is between you and God.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1912]
God also gave Jesus the name above every name. If Jesus was God, he wouldn't have to be GIVEN a higher position than he had before. The Father, God, calls all the shots, so to speak.

Marke: God commanded all the heavenly host to bow down and worship Jesus.

Yes, but not as God Almighty. He deserves love and respect, absolutely, but not as the one true God. That level of worship goes to the Most High, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

Marke: God commanded all creatures to worship Jesus. If you have a problem with that then the issue is between you and God.

Yes I know, and I addressed that in a previous post.

[Capbook]

[Replying to onewithhim in post #1912]
God also gave Jesus the name above every name. If Jesus was God, he wouldn't have to be GIVEN a higher position than he had before. The Father, God, calls all the shots, so to speak.

Marke: God commanded all the heavenly host to bow down and worship Jesus.

Yes, but not as God Almighty. He deserves love and respect, absolutely, but not as the one true God. That level of worship goes to the Most High, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

Marke: God commanded all creatures to worship Jesus. If you have a problem with that then the issue is between you and God.

Yes I know, and I addressed that in a previous post.

You did accept that Jesus is to be worshiped not the kind or level of worship to the Father.
I am confused is your church monotheistic or henotheistic?
As henotheism is the worship of a single, supreme god that does not deny the existence or possible existence of other deities that may be worshipped.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism

[onewithhim]

Marke: God commanded all the heavenly host to bow down and worship Jesus.

Yes, but not as God Almighty. He deserves love and respect, absolutely, but not as the one true God. That level of worship goes to the Most High, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

Marke: God commanded all creatures to worship Jesus. If you have a problem with that then the issue is between you and God.

Yes I know, and I addressed that in a previous post.

You did accept that Jesus is to be worshiped not the kind or level of worship to the Father.
I am confused is your church monotheistic or henotheistic?
As henotheism is the worship of a single, supreme god that does not deny the existence or possible existence of other deities that may be worshipped.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism

My faith is such that I am definitely monotheistic. Jehovah is God (the Father) and Jesus is His Son, subordinate to his Father. Jesus deserves to be "worshipped" but not as God Almighty. The one God is Jehovah. There are no other gods that are equal to Him.

[Capbook]

Yes, but not as God Almighty. He deserves love and respect, absolutely, but not as the one true God. That level of worship goes to the Most High, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

Marke: God commanded all creatures to worship Jesus. If you have a problem with that then the issue is between you and God.

Yes I know, and I addressed that in a previous post.

You did accept that Jesus is to be worshiped not the kind or level of worship to the Father.
I am confused is your church monotheistic or henotheistic?
As henotheism is the worship of a single, supreme god that does not deny the existence or possible existence of other deities that may be worshipped.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henotheism

My faith is such that I am definitely monotheistic. Jehovah is God (the Father) and Jesus is His Son, subordinate to his Father. Jesus deserves to be "worshipped" but not as God Almighty. The one God is Jehovah. There are no other gods that are equal to Him.

You just completely doing the definition of Henotheism.
You worship the Father as God Almighty.
And another level of worship to Jesus.
You absolutely practiced Henotheism, see its definition once again and use your own wisdom without interpreting it with pre-conceived belief.

[marke]

Marke: God commanded all the heavenly host to bow down and worship Jesus.

Yes, but not as God Almighty. He deserves love and respect, absolutely, but not as the one true God. That level of worship goes to the Most High, Jehovah. (Psalm 83:18, KJV)

Marke: God commanded all creatures to worship Jesus. If you have a problem with that then the issue is between you and God.

Yes I know, and I addressed that in a previous post.

You did accept that Jesus is to be worshiped not the kind or level of worship to the Father.

Marke: Are you saying God accepts and even encourages men and angels to worship creatures that are not God in some lower or different form of worship?

[A Freeman]

Psalm 110:1 <A Psalm of David.> The "I AM" (God) said unto my Lord (Christ), Sit thou at My right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.

1 Corinthians 15:23-28
15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
15:24 Then [cometh] The End, when he shall have delivered up The Kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
15:25 For He (God, our heavenly Father) must reign, till He (God) hath put all enemies under his (Christ's) feet.
15:26 The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
15:27 For He (God/Father) hath put all things under his (Christ's) feet. But when He (God) saith all things are put under [him (Christ), it is] manifest that He (God) is excepted, which did put all things under him (Christ).
15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him (Christ), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto Him (God) that put all things under him (Christ), that God may be all in all.

Hebrews 1:1-6
1:1 God, Who at sundry times and in diverse manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the Prophets,
1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [His] Son, whom He hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds;
1:3 Who being the brightness of [His] glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by The Word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of His Majesty on high;
1:4 Being MADE (i.e. created) so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance [being the firstborn/first-created Son of God] obtained a more excellent name than they.
1:5 For unto which of the angels said He at any time, Thou art My Son, this day have I created for thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to Me a Son?
1:6 And again, when He bringeth in the firstborn (first-created) into the world, He saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.


And from Christ, straight out of the mouth of Jesus:

Matthew 24:36 (Jesus telling us he's NOT all-knowing/omniscient, but Father is) But of That Day and Hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father ONLY.

John 5:19-20 (Jesus, telling everyone he's not all-powerful/omnipotent, as God is)
5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever He doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth him all things that Himself doeth: and He will show him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

John 14:28 (Jesus telling us he's NOT the Most High God) Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

And Christ, through the mouth of Jesus, telling us that His Father is his (Christ's) God:

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in The Temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and my NEW name.