The above is a quote from Franklin Graham...
Dividing people into categories of "saved" and "unsaved".
This phraseology is common among Evangelicals and Fundamentalists.
Question for debate...how does this thinking square with Jesus teaching to "judge not"?
and is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?
"Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
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Elijah John
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"Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
Post #1 My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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Elijah John
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Post #4
Let me refine the OP just a bit and address this question to the Fundamentalists who may be reading this.
Are you comfortable when preachers judge and divide the world into camps of "saved" and "unsaved"...do you think that is up to ANY human to judge?
Are you comfortable when preachers judge and divide the world into camps of "saved" and "unsaved"...do you think that is up to ANY human to judge?
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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ttruscott
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Re: "Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
Post #5I believe that you may have mistaken the interpretation of the word judgement to mean to discriminate rather than to mean to condemn. We are not to condemn anyone because on only GOD can see the heart and we know from the experience of this very forum about righteous actions being attributed to sinful motives. But we are certainly supposed to discriminate between righteous and sinful behaviours without condemnation for self righteousness.Elijah John wrote: The above is a quote from Franklin Graham...
Dividing people into categories of "saved" and "unsaved".
This phraseology is common among Evangelicals and Fundamentalists.
Question for debate...how does this thinking square with Jesus teaching to "judge not"?
and is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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ttruscott
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Post #6
Yes, because it is the truth. But I do not apply any label to anyone as saved or unsaved... that is between them and their GOD and I remember my sins against HIM when I was in full roar - no one would ever have though I could be saved.Elijah John wrote: ...
Are you comfortable when preachers judge and divide the world into camps of "saved" and "unsaved"...do you think that is up to ANY human to judge?
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
Re: "Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
Post #7If people think they're saved, it's just wishful thinking..Elijah John wrote: ..is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?
Even Paul never presumed to pompously think he was saved-
"My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3)
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Youkilledkenny
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Re: "Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
Post #8[Replying to post 1 by Elijah John]
As a non-believer, I wouldn't think being able to figure out who is saved and who isn't is hard and, as far as I can see it, not a 'judgement thing'.
Maybe I've been too far removed from it though
As a non-believer, I wouldn't think being able to figure out who is saved and who isn't is hard and, as far as I can see it, not a 'judgement thing'.
Maybe I've been too far removed from it though
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Elijah John
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Post #10
I agree with this part of your post. So who is ANY human to say who is saved or unsaved?ttruscott wrote:... But I do not apply any label to anyone as saved or unsaved... that is between them and their GOD......Elijah John wrote: ...
Are you comfortable when preachers judge and divide the world into camps of "saved" and "unsaved"...do you think that is up to ANY human to judge?
Not a Universalist here, and I do not believe that salvation is universal..so I am not arguing against the premise that there are saved and unsaved folks.
But to sort out who is who, and which is which is God's business, imo...or has he delegated that aurthority to Franklin Graham and his like minded Fundamentalists and Evangelicals?
My theological positions:
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
-God created us in His image, not the other way around.
-The Bible is redeemed by it's good parts.
-Pure monotheism, simple repentance.
-YHVH is LORD
-The real Jesus is not God, the real YHVH is not a monster.
-Eternal life is a gift from the Living God.
-Keep the Commandments, keep your salvation.
-I have accepted YHVH as my Heavenly Father, LORD and Savior.
I am inspired by Jesus to worship none but YHVH, and to serve only Him.
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JoeyKnothead
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Post #11
From Post 3:
I judge such folks to be fear mongers.
All I see is an appeal to the less sophisticated, who'd fall for unsupportable Christian claims of salvation and dangnation.
Sure it is.Elijah John wrote: ...
Are you comfortable when preachers judge and divide the world into camps of "saved" and "unsaved"...do you think that is up to ANY human to judge?
I judge such folks to be fear mongers.
All I see is an appeal to the less sophisticated, who'd fall for unsupportable Christian claims of salvation and dangnation.
I might be Teddy Roosevelt, but I ain't.
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MasterOfOnesOwnMind
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Post #12
I believe if I go to hell simply for not having faith, and someone who commits atrocities but repents and is saved can go to heaven; then I'll be happy in hell because there will be plenty of Good people there.Elijah John wrote: Are you comfortable when preachers judge and divide the world into camps of "saved" and "unsaved"...do you think that is up to ANY human to judge?
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OnceConvinced
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Re: "Bring your *unsaved* family and friends.."
Post #13Dropship wrote:If people think they're saved, it's just wishful thinking..Elijah John wrote: ..is it up to us to judge who is "saved" or "unsaved" or is that solely the province of God?
Even Paul never presumed to pompously think he was saved-
"My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time" (1 Cor 4:3)
How can you be a Christian and not be saved? Surely to be a Christian one must first be saved? That's what I always believed. See John 3
Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.
There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.
Check out my website: Recker's World
