Is there a parallel?

[Athetotheist]

In the 19th century, a movement started among Native Americans which was believed by some to be a way to bring back their former way of life. One of its names was the Ghost Dance, and its participants hoped that performing it widely enough would bring about the disappearance of their white oppressors, the return of the buffalo herds and the restoration of peace and prosperity.

Fast forward to modern times, when "Dominion Theology" has become a significant movement. There are various approaches to it, but one facet is:

Dominion Theology defines the church’s hope to be the establishment of an earthly kingdom instead of the second coming of Christ. Under this view, Christ cannot come back until the church first establishes the millennial kingdom. This kingdom is not simply the rule of God in the hearts of people, but it is to be political, social, and visible. The great commission is redefined: instead of the primary goal being personal evangelism, the church’s mission is to gain control of the world, institution by institution and nation by nation.

https://www.apostolic.edu/is-dominion-t ... criptural/

Is Dominion Theology a fundamentalist Christian version of the Ghost Dance?

[1213]

[Replying to 1213 in post #16

But, I think 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is about when Jesus comes from heaven, which I don't think has yet happened.

"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."(Matthew 24:30-35)

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

Doesn't it look like 1 Thessalonians and Matthew are referring to the same event?

I think it is possible that those are about the same thing. In Matthew 24 Jesus is speaking of two or three different things that will happen. And I think those two are about the end of the age.

[1213]

...Jesus supposedly comes again which is too long overdue to be taken seriously anymore.

How could have it been any sooner? If it would be so, these would be pointless:

Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?
Luke 18:8

knowing this first, that in the last days mockers will come, walking after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." For this they willfully forget, that there were heavens from of old, and an earth formed out of water and amid water, by the word of God;
2 Pet. 3:3-5

By what is said in the Bible, it is clear that it will take so long that many people reject Jesus and speak like you.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #22

knowing this first, that in the last days mockers will come, walking after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." For this they willfully forget, that there were heavens from of old, and an earth formed out of water and amid water, by the word of God;
2 Pet. 3:3-5

By what is said in the Bible, it is clear that it will take so long that many people reject Jesus and speak like you.

Then why did Peter have to write a second letter after writing in 1 Peter 4:7 that "the end of all things is near"?

[TRANSPONDER]

...Jesus supposedly comes again which is too long overdue to be taken seriously anymore.

How could have it been any sooner? If it would be so, these would be pointless:

Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?
Luke 18:8

knowing this first, that in the last days mockers will come, walking after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." For this they willfully forget, that there were heavens from of old, and an earth formed out of water and amid water, by the word of God;
2 Pet. 3:3-5

By what is said in the Bible, it is clear that it will take so long that many people reject Jesus and speak like you.

but it seems that the longer it takes the more people will doubt. This may fit your beleif, but it fits mine better - Jesus should have returned and done his stuff while some of hgis followers were still alive.

Since then, Christianity (and Islam) has spread until the centuries of information when people heard the Other side and disbelief increased. Not mockers and the self indulgent. This is Christian smearing, as pointless and Muslims snarling at you that the reason you rejectr Islam is to eat bacon.

That isn't the reason - it is because religion makes no sense, and people are starting to realise it now that Religion is not the only side they get to hear.

I wrote a bit about how religion would like to shut atheism up, but I cut that and i could do a bit about how smearing anyone not on their side gets smeared, and that is the same now as it was then.

But the point is that none of that is evidence, even though it can fit, sorta. The more important reading is that Jesus should have returned after the Jewish war, really. The Sanhedrin would have seen him return on the clouds just as he said. Didn't happen.

My money is on It won't happen. It's like all those end of world prophecies; there is no way they can be kept alive after all this time; they were wrong and that is all there is to it.

Oh, and it has to be said, save your denial, that means absolutely nothing. It is not about what you can deny, but av bout what you can evidence; and faithclaims backed up with near random Bible - quotes is evidence of nothing but your failure to understand what evidence is.

[1213]

...Then why did Peter have to write a second letter after writing in 1 Peter 4:7 that "the end of all things is near"?

I don't think he "had to write". I think he wanted to write, because he thought and that the end of all things is near. I think he was correct and I think we are every day closer to that.

[1213]

but it seems that the longer it takes the more people will doubt. This may fit your beleif, but it fits mine better - Jesus should have returned and done his stuff while some of hgis followers were still alive....

Oh, it has to be said, save your denial, that means absolutely nothing. It is not about what you can deny, but about what you can evidence; and faithclaims backed up with near random Bible - quotes is evidence of nothing but your failure to understand what evidence is.

[TRANSPONDER]

but it seems that the longer it takes the more people will doubt. This may fit your beleif, but it fits mine better - Jesus should have returned and done his stuff while some of hgis followers were still alive....

Oh, it has to be said, save your denial, that means absolutely nothing. It is not about what you can deny, but about what you can evidence; and faithclaims backed up with near random Bible - quotes is evidence of nothing but your failure to understand what evidence is.

But the evidence has ben given - the words are that some listening to him would not 'taste death' before the end came - which would of course include his coming on clouds as he told the Sanhedrin they would see.

And you say so yourself above. Peter expected the end soon. I think Paul did. I feel the sense of urgency to convert as many as possible before the end came.

It did not, and it did not happen as prophesied. It was a failed end of world prophecy and you and I have both provided the evidence that the prophecy was wrong, and your belief that it is still going to happen is wrong.

With your denial, failure to understand what evidence is, you have once again shot yourself in both feet.

[otseng]

Oh, and it has to be said, save your denial, that means absolutely nothing. It is not about what you can deny, but av bout what you can evidence; and faithclaims backed up with near random Bible - quotes is evidence of nothing but your failure to understand what evidence is.

Oh, it has to be said, save your denial, that means absolutely nothing. It is not about what you can deny, but about what you can evidence; and faithclaims backed up with near random Bible - quotes is evidence of nothing but your failure to understand what evidence is.

Moderator Comment

Please avoid the personal accusations and the tit-for-tats.

Please review the Rules.



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Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[TRANSPONDER]

Oh, and it has to be said, save your denial, that means absolutely nothing. It is not about what you can deny, but av bout what you can evidence; and faithclaims backed up with near random Bible - quotes is evidence of nothing but your failure to understand what evidence is.

Oh, it has to be said, save your denial, that means absolutely nothing. It is not about what you can deny, but about what you can evidence; and faithclaims backed up with near random Bible - quotes is evidence of nothing but your failure to understand what evidence is.

Moderator Comment

Please avoid the personal accusations and the tit-for-tats.

Please review the Rules.



______________



Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

Ok. Noted, that last (from me) was a bit personal.

[Athetotheist]

[Replying to 1213 in post #25

I don't think he "had to write". I think he wanted to write, because he thought and that the end of all things is near. I think he was correct and I think we are every day closer to that.

How was he correct when it's been so many centuries since he wrote? (The "one-day-is-as-a-thousand-years" argument doesn't help; it just makes failed prophecies unfalsifiable.)