Trinity

[adherent]

Do you believe in the Trinity? And why?

[canadianhorsefan]

No, I do not. Allah (God) does not have a son, and why should he be divided into three?

canadianhorsefan

[adherent]

Oh, I meant like the Christian trinity. I didn't know there was a Muslim trinity.

[canadianhorsefan]

What?! I said why should He be divided in three? = He is NOT a trinity. Everything clear?

canadianhorsefan

[cookiesusedunderprotest]

I said why should He be divided in three?

If I may quote you from another thread:

It may be easier to think of Him as male and female; He is far from our puny comprehension.

And it is more correct to think of Him as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If God exist in a form that we cannot fully comprehend (which He does), why can't it be in this one?

[veritas]

It may be easier to think of Him as male and female; He is far from our puny comprehension.

And it is more correct to think of Him as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. If God exist in a form that we cannot fully comprehend (which He does), why can't it be in this one?

Greetings,

In that particular case, she was correcting what she perceives to be an error of understanding on my part: more or less a "It may be easier to do it your way, but the right way is..."

But I would ask Christians who believe in the Trinity the same question: the Creator exists in a form that none of us can understand. Is it possible that your understanding (of God as a Trinity) is just as incorrect as my understanding (as God as Kernunos and Aradia)? Do you, as Christians, have the ability to step back from your faith for a moment and contemplate that your understanding may face the same flaws?

The question requires some activities that most Christians find very difficult, for understandable reasons. It requires you to set aside, for a moment, your faith in the accuracy of the Scriptures. Most especially, it requires you to consider, briefly, that you may be wrong--not "morally wrong," necessarily, but basing your belief on something that is incorrect.

I can do this, but I will not deny that it is most difficult, and I do not hold any onus towards those who do not feel that they can.

Justin

[Chancellor]

Do you believe in the Trinity? And why?

What I believe is that God is the Father in the creation of humans, in fathering the man Jesus the Christ, and the adoption of the believer. I believe that God is the Son in the incarnation, in redemption (the atoning work on the cross), in mediation, and in reign. I believe that God is the Holy Spirit in regeneration and in revelation. Whereas trinitarians believe "the Father is" and "the Son is" and "the Holy Spirit is" (thereby giving sentience to three divine beings), I believe God is. I believe that, in terms of deity, Jesus is the one and only God and that, in terms of humanity, He is the only begotten Son of God.

I find myself focusing on three questions:

1. What is it about God that makes Him "the Father"?

2. What is it about God that makes Him "the Son"?

3. What is it about God that makes Him "the Holy Spirit"?[/b]

[cookiesusedunderprotest]

In that particular case, she was correcting what she perceives to be an error of understanding on my part: more or less a "It may be easier to do it your way, but the right way is..."

In the same way, I believe that it is easier to think of God as infinite in finite terms (existing as a simple singularity), but that it is more correct, according to the Bible, to think of God as infinite in infinite terms (existing as a complex unity, as one in three, able to simultaneously be all of the One and Only God in Heaven as Father and all of the One and Only God on earth as Jesus Christ and all of the One and Only God working in our hearts as the Holy Spirit).

But I would ask Christians who believe in the Trinity the same question: the Creator exists in a form that none of us can understand. Is it possible that your understanding (of God as a Trinity) is just as incorrect as my understanding (as God as Kernunos and Aradia)?
Do you, as Christians, have the ability to step back from your faith for a moment and contemplate that your understanding may face the same flaws?

Philosophically, the possibility exists that my understanding of the nature of God is incorrect (it is undoubtedly skewed to a degree, just because I am a human). But I try to be objective about my beliefs (though I think it is impossible to eliminate all subjectivity), and I have come to the decisions that the Bible, in the original manuscripts, is the authoritative Word of God , and that the Bible reveals God as a complex unity that theologians have dubbed the Trinity (since the word "trinity" never appears in the Bible, I am not arguing for the use of the term, just the ideas it represents).

[canadianhorsefan]

If you want to read this on the actual website, go to: http://www.hizmetbooks.org/could_not_answer/9.htm


I should quote this, but I think it's better without all the white. :p


PROVING THE FALSITY OF TRINITY BY MEANS OF THE STATEMENTS OF ISA 'alaihis-salam'



The Gospels contain many verses proving the fact that the belief of trinity is wrong.


[Before citing those verses, it will be useful to give brief information on the origin of the belief of trinity [three gods], which was inserted into Christianity afterwards. In all the religions that have been revealed since Adam 'alaihis-salam', Allahu ta'ala has been the [only] creator and owner, and His name has been (ALLAH) in all these religions. Everybody with common sense will know that it is wrong to believe in trinity, three gods. The fact that Allahu ta'ala is one is stated also in the Gospel written by Barnabas, one of the Apostles. The Gospel of Barnabas was published in Turkish in 1987, in Istanbul. As the Bible was being translated into Greek and Latin, the Romans, who had hundreds of gods till that time, were not satisfied with one God, and wanted to multiply the number. They inserted this (theory) into the Gospel of John first. The original copy of the Gospel had already been lost, and they changed it for good this time. This doctrine was validated by force in the council (the ecclesiastical assembly which was convoked by Constantine the Great in 325. Its reason was that the Greeks adhered to the Platonic philosophy. The Platonic philosophy is based on three principles: Morals, mind, and nature. And nature is divided into three: plants, animals, and human beings. According to Plato, the Power that created the world is one, but He may have two assistants. This theory gave birth to the doctrine of trinity. Though the doctrine of trinity was first seen in the Gospel of John, the same Gospel contains verses proving the fact that Allahu ta'ala is one. We shall mention some of them].


The third verse of the seventeenth chapter of the Gospel of John states: "O Father, the eternal life [life in the world to come] consists in their recognizing Thee who art a real God and Jesus the Messiah whom Thou hast sent." This verse announces clearly that Allahu ta'ala is (ONE), who is the owner of real, eternal life, and that Isa 'alaihis-salam' is a Messenger sent by Allahu ta'ala.


By commanding through this verse to have belief in the eternal life, i.e. life in the hereafter, in the existence and unity of Allahu ta'ala, and in Prophets, the Gospel of John enjoins that a doctrine running counter to this, i.e. trinity, is an everlastingly inadmissible falsity. [This verse of John's declares that Isa 'alaihis-salam' is a Messenger, a Prophet. Thinking and believing otherwise afterwards means apparent aberration that will annihilate the eternal life, the everlasting felicity in the hereafter. In the beginning of the seventeenth chapter of the Gospel of John Isa 'alaihis-salam' is quoted as praying as follows on the cross: "Eternal life is knowing Thee, the only real God, and Jesus the Messiah, whom Thou hast sent" [Verse: 3]. Isa 'alaihis-salam' announces here that Allahu ta'ala is the only being who is to be worshipped, who is worthy of being worshipped, and he himself (Isa 'alaihis-salam') is His born servant and Messenger. He informs that eternal life, life in Paradise is impossible unless it is accepted and believed that Allahu ta'ala is the one Rab and he (Isa 'alaihis- salam') is the Prophet. This is the very fact taught by Isa 'alaihis-salam' and all the other Prophets 'alaihimus-salam' alike. That is, it is to believe in the existence and the unity of Allahu ta'ala and to confirm His Prophets]. Islam, alone, comprehends this belief of the eternal life to come in its entire and correct sense. Since Christians have fallen into the abyss of trinity; Jews do not believe in Isa 'alaihis-salam', [and sordidly traduce that immaculate Prophet, and do not believe in Muhammad 'alaihis-salam', either]; idolaters, [those who do not believe in any religion, atheists] deny all Prophets; there cannot be a real life of felicity, life of Paradise for them. [As a punishment for their denial of Allahu ta'ala and His Prophets and their slanderous and inimical attitude, they shall remain forever in Hell. They shall lead a grievous, torturous life in Hell].


It is written in the twenty-ninth and later verses of the twelfth chapter of the Gospel of Mark that when a Jewish scholar asked Isa 'alaihis-salam' what the first and the most important commandment was, Isa 'alaihis- salam' said, "Listen, o thou Israeli: our Allah, Rab, is the Rab who is one. And thou shalt love the Rab, who is thine Allah, with all thine heart, with all thine soul, with all thine thought, and with all thine might. Secondly, thou shalt love thine neighbor like loving thyself. There is no other commandment greater than this. The Jew said unto him: Very well, o thou Teacher! Thou hast spoken truly that Allah is one. There is no one except He. And loving Him with all thine heart, with all thine thought, with all thine might, and loving thine neighbor like thyself; these are superior to all sorts of worships done and all sorts of sacrifices performed. And when Jesus saw this wise answer of his, he said: You are not far from Allah's creation."


In the thirty-sixth, thirty-seventh and thirty-eighth verses of the twenty-second chapter of the Gospel of Matthew when Isa 'alihis-salam' was asked, "O Teacher! What is the greatest commandment in the Shariat?", Jesus said unto him: Thou shall love Rab, who is thine Allah, with all thine heart, with all thine soul, with all thine thought. This is the great and the primary commandment. And it is stated in the fortieth verse that all Shariats and Prophets are dependent on this commandment. [The fact that Allah is one is written clearly in the Gospels of Matthew and Mark. The world 'Father' means 'Rab', 'Owner', and 'Lord'. It does not mean biological father].


[Furthermore, the epistles that have been annexed to the Bible and are therefore considered to be its components contain statements expressing that Allahu ta'ala is one.



The twentieth verse of the third chapter of Paul's epistle to the Galatians states: "and ALLAH IS ONE."


The fourth, the fifth and the sixth verses of the fourth chapter of Paul's epistle to the Ephesians state: "The body is one and the soul is one, the Rab (Allah) is one, and iman (faith, belief) is one. ALLAH, the Father above all, with all, in all, and of all is one."


The seventeenth verse of the first chapter of Timothy I states: "Now, may eternal times eternal hurmat (glory) and izzat (honor) be to the ONE ALLAH, who is the Ruler of times, who never ceased to exist, and who is not seen by the eye."


The fourth and fifth verses of the second chapter state: "It is good and acceptable [to pray, supplicate, and pay gratitude to those who are in a high position] according to Allah, who is the savior. He wishes all people to attain salvation and to reach the knowledge of the truth. For ALLAH IS ONE, and there is a communicant [an envoy, a Messenger, a Rasul] between Allah and human beings," The twenty-seventh verse of Yahuda's (Judah) epistle states: "To the ONE ALLAH, our Almighty Savior."]


The first commandment, the first injunction in the Taurah, [in the genuine Injil (the Bible in its pristine purity)], in all the heavenly Books, [and in the Shariats of all Prophets], is tawhid, which means to believe in the existence and unity of Allahu ta'ala. Had the first and the most important commandment been trinity, Adam 'alaihis-salam' and all the succeeding Prophets 'alaihimus-salam' would have announced et overtly. None of those Prophets stated anything like that. This is another proof testifying to the fact that the doctrine of trinity did not exist originally but appeared afterwards.


[These verses from the New Testament definitely rescind the Christian doctrine of (belief in three Gods). Isa 'alaihis-salam' overtly commands here to believe in Allahu ta'ala, who is one, and to love Him more than anything else. Paul also wrote in every occasion in his epistles that Allahu ta'ala is one. If Isa 'alaihis- salam' were a God a Christians believe, he would have said that the primary commandment was to love him and that there were three Gods.


The Taurah, too, announces the unity of Allahu ta'ala in many places.


The thirty-ninth verse of the fourth chapter of Tesniya (Deuteronomy) states: "and today know and place in thine heart and believe certainly that up in heavens and down on earth the RAB IS ALLAH, there is none other."


The fourth verse of the sixth chapter states: "Listen o Israeli: The Rab is the RAB WHO IS ONE, and thou shalt love the Rab, who is thine Allah, with all thine heart and with all thine soul and with all thine might."


The thirty-ninth verse of the thirty-second chapter states: "Now, see that I, I am He, and there is no God besides Me. I kill and I bring to life."


The twenty-fifth verse of the fortieth chapter of (the Book of) Isaiah states: "Who would you liken me to, so that I would be equal to him? [Allah, who is] Quddus (Divine, Holy), says. Raise your eyes and see. Who created these?"


The tenth and later verses of the forty-third chapter state: "The Rab says: Thou art Mine witnesses and Mine born servants whom I have chosen so that thou shalt know and believe in Me and know that I am He. There was no Allah before Me, and there shall not be any after Me, either. I, I am the Rab, and there is no savior other than Me. The RAB says: I AM ALLAH."


The fifth verse of the forty-fifth chapter states: "I am the RAB, and there is none else. There is no Allah except Me."


The tenth verse of the second chapter of Malachi states: "Is not the Father of all of us the same? Did not one Allah create us?" Again, in the Book of Isaiah, in the eighteenth verse of its forty-fifth chapter, it is stated: "For Allah, who is the RAB, the Creator of heavens, who formed the world and created it, who made it firm and who did not create it in vain, and who put it into a liveable shape, says: I am the RAB, and none else is."


The ninth verse f the forty-sixth chapter states: "I am Allah, and there is none else. I am Allah, and there is no one like Me." Inasmuch as the Old Testament section of the Holy Bible is included in the Christian belief, it must be interesting to know what Christians will do about these verses. For these verses reject belief in any god, no matter what it be called, son or holy ghost or whatsoever, except (ALLAAHU TA'ALA). They declare definitely that Allahu ta'ala is one and He has no partner or likeness. Believing in trinity, Christians deny these verses].


In the thirty-second verse of the thirteenth chapter of the Gospel of Mark, Isa 'alaihis-salam' says, "But no one except the Father, neither the angels in heaven nor the son, knows about today and this hour." The verse states that only the Father knows.


It is written as follows in the twentieth and later verses of the twentieth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew: "A woman came to Isa 'alaihis-salam' and said: Command that one of these two sons of mine be seated on your right hand side and the other be seated on your left in your dominion. Isa 'alaihis-salam' replied: I do not have the authority to bless with sitting on my right or left. Yet this blessing shall be given to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father."


[As is stated in the Gospel of Mark, Isa 'alaihis- salam' declared that he did not know when the end of the world will come, and that Allahu ta'ala, alone, knows its time. He did not refrain from saying this publicly. Mustn't a person who is believed to be the son of Allah or Allah himself know this? Some Christians tried to explain this (contradiction) in various ways, but they were not convinced by their own explanations].


The verses we have cited from the existing Gospels and from the Old Testament cry out the fact that the doctrine of trinity is wrong. For these verses take knowledge and power away from Isa 'alaihis-salam' and assign them to Allahu ta'ala.


The sixteenth and seventeenth verses of the nineteenth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew state: "Someone came to Jesus and said: O generous Teacher! What good should I do to attain eternal life? Jesus said unto him: Why do you call me 'generous?? There is no generous except Allah, who is one." This verse extirpates trinity. [These statements of Isa's 'alaihis-salam' are written textually in the Holy Bible which was published in Istanbul in the lunar year 1303 [A.D. 1886] by British and American Bible corporations. On the other hand, this seventeenth verse is written as, "Jesus said unto him: Why do you ask me for goodness? There is one who is good," in the Holy Bible published in 1982 by the united Bible societies. As it is seen, the expression, "There is no generous except Allah, who is one," has been excised. The statement about the unity of Allahu ta'ala has been detoured. Thus a new mutilation has been added to the changes that have been exercised on the Bible throughout centuries.]


In the forty-sixth and the fiftieth verses of the twenty-seventh chapter of the Gospel of Matthew, Isa 'alaihis-salam', as he was on the cross, cried out: "Eli, Eli, lima sebaqteni," which means, "My Allah, my Allah, why hast Thou forsaken me?" On the other hand, it is written in the forty-sixth verse of the twenty-third chapter of the Gospel of Luke that he cried, "O Father, I trust my soul to your hands." These verses announce without any doubt that Isa 'alaihis-salam' is not divine. [If Isa 'alaihis-salam' had been the same as the Rab, he would not have asked for help from anyone. He would not have said, "I trust may soul to Thine hands." Will a God die? Will a God ever ask for help from others, or become sorry or aggrieved? A God must be eternal, permanent, alive [hayy], immortal, and must not need anyone. It is written clearly in the Old Testament that this is so. It is written in the twenty-eighth verse of the fortieth chapter of the Book of Isaiah: "O Israeli, did not you know? Did not you hear? Allah, who has created the extremes of the world [the earth and heaven], does not become weak or tired. The depth of His hikmat cannot be reached."


It is stated in the sixth verse of the forty-fourth chapter: "The Ruler and Savior of Israel and the Rab (Allah) of the armies of Israel declares: I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me."



And it is written in the tenth verse of the tenth chapter of the Book of Jeremiah: "But the RAB is the true Allah, the Malik (Ruler) who is alive, hayy and eternal, [to whom death shall never come]. His wrath makes the world tremble, and nations cannot endure His wrath. Those gods who have not created heavens and the earth shall perish under the earth and heavens. The Rab (Allah) created the earth with His might. He established the world with His hikmat (divine wisdom, ultimate divine law of causation). He laid heavens with His omniscience."


As is concluded from these verses in the Old Testament, Allahu ta'ala is one and has infinite power. He is Allah, to whom Isa 'alaihis-salam' entrusted himself and asked for help as, according to the Christian cult, he was being crucified [may Allahu ta'ala protect us against saying or believing so]. While believing in the divinity of Isa 'alaihis-salam', Christians not only acknowledge at the same time that he died, but also believe that after death he will enter Hell as an atonement for people's sins. They put forward the eighteenth and the nineteenth verses of the third chapter of Peter's first epistle as an evidence for proving that Isa 'alaihis-salam' will enter Hell.


Rahmatullah Effendi "rahmatullahi alaih" explains this Christian belief and priests' writings and answers in this respect in his book Iz-har-ul-haq, and states: In a meeting the famous priest Martiros said: "No doubt, Jesus had accepted to be human like us. For this reason, he would have to put up with all the calamities and afflictions that have and would come unto human beings. As a matter of fact, he did put up with them all. To this effect he entered Hell and was tormented. As he went out of Hell, he took along all of those who had entered Hell before him out with him." There are creedal differences among Christian sects in this respect. A person in whom they believe as such is at the same time, according to them again, an omnipresent God who dominates over and owns all].


It is stated in the fourteenth and later verses of the twentieth chapter of the Gospel of John: "Jesus showed himself to Mary of Magdala. And he said unto her: Do not touch me. For I have not ascended near my father yet. But go to my brothers [Apostles] and tell them: I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God."


It is understood from these verses that Isa 'alaihis- salam' uses the terms son and Father not only when he is concerned. They are a metaphorical pair used as special expressions in the dialect or language he spoke. According to the literal meaning of these words Isa 'alaihis- salam' is the son of Allahu ta'ala, yet by saying, "my God and your God," in the same verses, he acknowledges that Allahu ta'ala is ilah. Moreover, he considers the Apostles on the same status as he is and makes them his partners.


[After saying, "to my Father and your Father," he adds the phrase, "to my God and your God," in order to explain the former phrase and to say that they are the born servants of one Allah. Thus the Apostles become partners to Isa 'alaihis-salam' were to be accepted as a God on account of his saying "to my Father" about Allahu ta'ala, then it would be necessary to accept each of the Apostles as a God partner to him because he says "to your Father." During the life time of Isa 'alaihis-salam' none of the Apostles accepted him as a God or called him the son of God. This epithet was given to him a long time after his death according to Christians ascension to heaven. And this shows that Isa 'alaihis-salam' is not Allah. He is not Ibn-ullah, that is, the son of Allah, either. He is only Abd-ullah. That is, he is the born servant of Allah].


It is written in the twenty-eighth verse of the fourteenth chapter of John that Isa 'alaihis-salam' said, "The Father is greater than I am." Isa 'alaihis- salam' states that Allahu ta'ala is greater than he is. Christians' calling Isa 'alaihis-salam' 'God' means denying a very obvious fact, [which is also acknowledged even by today's Gospels despite all the interpolations including trinity].


[The Bible's translations into Greek and Latin were done without understanding and therefore with many mistakes. This fact is quite conspicuous in trinity. For the word 'father', in Hebrew, does not only mean 'one's own father'. It also has the meaning 'great, respectable person.' For this reason, Qur'an al-karim uses the expression, "His father called Azar," about Azar, who was the paternal uncle of Ibrahim 'alaihis-salam'. For his father, Taruh, was dead. He had been raised by his uncle and called him 'father' as it was customary in this time. It is written in the Old Testament part of the Bible also that the father of Ibrahim 'alaihis-salam' was Taruh. In English as well, originator or designer of something as well as any person who deserves filial reverence is called 'father.' By the same token, the word 'Son', in Hebrew, is more often than not used to mean a person who is younger than or inferior to another person and who is at the same time attached to him with excessive affection. As we have stated earlier, it is written in the ninth verse of the fifth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew: "How lucky for those who make peace ! For they shall be called (Son of God)." As it is seen, the word (Son) means (beloved born servant of Allah). No Christian has used this verse or many other similar verses as grounds for the divinization of the people for whom these terms are expressed. Then, in the original Bible the word (Father) was used to mean a blessed being, i.e. Allahu ta'ala, and the word (Son) was used to mean His beloved born servant. A great majority of Christians, who have come to their senses only recently, have been saying, "All of us are God's born servants, children. God is the Rab, the Father of us all. The words (Father) and (Son) in the Bible should be understood as such." It is a proven fact that when the original Hebrew version of the Bible was translated, many a word was given a wrong meaning, like the words (Father) and (Son). Details pertaining to this fact are soon to follow].


In the twenty-fourth verse of the fourteenth chapter of the Gospel of John, Isa 'alaihis-salam' is reported to have said: "The words you hear are not mine. But they belong to the Father who has sent me." And in the tenth verse: "Whatever I say unto thee, I do not say it from myself."


The twenty-second verse of the second chapter of Acts of the Apostles states: "O soldiers of Israel, listen well to these words: You yourselves know Jesus of Nazareth, that is, the man sanctioned by God."


The twenty-sixth verse of the third chapter states: "In order to bless you each by averting you from malefaction, God made His son rise and sent him to you first."


The twenty-ninth verse of the fourth chapter states: "... so that signs and wonders will happen through the name of Thine sacred son Jesus...". It becomes apparent through these verses that Isa 'alaihis-salam' is a Prophet and he spoke the wah'y of Allahu ta'ala.


It is written in the eighth, ninth, and tenth verses of the twenty-third chapter of the Gospel of Matthew that Isa 'alaihis-salam' stated: "But you should not want to be called 'Rabbi'. For you have one teacher, that is, the Messiah. All of you are brothers. Do not call anyone 'Our Father' on the earth. For you have one Father. And He is in heavens. Do not call anyone 'Our Master', either. For you have one master, i.e. the Messiah." And it is shown by these verses that the word 'Father' has been used in its figurative meaning and that Isa 'alaihis-salam' is not a divine being, but a teacher, educator, and corrector, that is, he is a Prophet.


The thirty-sixth and later verses of the twenty-sixth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew state: "Then Jesus and they came to a place called Getsemana, where he took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along, and said unto his disciples: Sit here till I go over there and pray. He began to feel distressed and grieved. Then he said unto them: My soul is as grieved and as sad as death. Stay here and be vigilant with me. He moved forward a little, prostrated himself, and prayed: O Father! If possible, take this bowl away from me. May it be as Thou likest it (to be). Jesus came near his disciples. He found them asleep. He turned to Peter and gave him advice. He went for a second time, and prayed: O Father, if it is impossible to take away that bowl before me drinking what it contains, may what Thou wishest be. He came near his disciples again. And he found them still asleep. He walked away again, said the same words and made the same prayer for a third time."


Did the Gospels contain no other evidences to disapprove Christians' slandering Isa 'alaihis-salam' by divinizing him, the above given statements of Isa 'alaihis-salam' saying that he himself is a born servant and the Father is Allahu ta'ala, who is one, would suffice to do it. If Isa 'alaihis-salam' had been the only son of God and had come to save humanity as Christians presume, would he have been grieved, sad with the fear of death? Would he have prostrated himself, prayed and invoked, "Take the bow] away from me."? [Isa 'alaihis-salam' in the Gospels calls himself 'human'. Christians, while knowing this fact on the one hand, have fallen into such an illogical belief as (human=God) on the other].


Christians have deduced the doctrine of trinity from the words (Father) and (Son), and fabricated such a wrong belief as unprecedented in history. Isa 'alaihis-salam' never called himself 'son of God', on the contrary, he called himself 'ibn-ul-insan (human)' in many places. [If he had really been the son of God, he would not have called himself 'human.' For a person says his own name, not another name, when he is asked]. Christians' fallacy of trinity was a result of some vague expressions in the Gospel of John. As it is widely known, the Gospel which is ascribed to John was written a long time after the other Gospels, and it was written in Greece. There are many spurious statements in the Gospel of John. In fact, Rahmat-ullah Effendi says in the preface of his book Iz-har-ul-haq that the Gospel of John is full of metaphorical expressions, and that very Gospel of John is full of metaphorical expressions, and that very few parts of it can be understood without explanation. Besides, most of the statements of Isa 'alaihis-salam' are written in forms of succinct metaphors and exemplifications like enigmas. They are such statements that even his disciples could hardly understand without interpretation or explanation. As a matter of fact, the thirty-ninth verse of the fifteenth chapter of the Gospel of Mark states: "The captain standing against Jesus, upon seeing him deliver his soul like this, said: this man really is the son of God." The forty-seventh verse of the twenty-third chapter of the Gospel of Luke states: "The captain, upon seeing what happened, said: Indeed he was a pious man." This statement in Luke shows that the statement, "This man really is the son of God," in Mark, means, "Indeed he was a pious man."


It is written in the ninth verse of the fifth chapter of the Gospel of Matthew that Isa 'alaihis-salam' stated: "How lucky for those who make peace! For they shall be called as the sons of God." And it is written in the forty-fourth verse that he said: "Pray for those who torment you, so that you will be sons to your Father who is in heaven." [In these verses, Isa 'alaihis-salam' uses the expression (sons of God) for those who make peace and forgive and the word (Father) for Allahu ta'ala. It is obvious that these expressions are metaphorical. Likewise, the Holy Bible (The Old and New Testaments alike) uses such expressions as 'the son of the devil', the son of Satan' for wicked and sinful people]. The thirty-ninth and later verses of the eighth chapter of the Gospel of John state: "The Jews said to Jesus: our father is Ibrahim. Jesus said unto them: If you were the sons of Ibrahim, you would do as he had done. But now you are trying to kill me, that is, the man who communicates to you the fact that he has heard from God. Ibrahim did not do so. You are not doing your father's deeds. They said to him: We were not born from fornication. We have a father. And he is God. Jesus said unto them: If God were your Father, you would love me. For I came out of God. I did not come out of myself. But He sent me. Why don't you understand what I say? For you cannot listen to my words. You are from your father Satan, the devil, and you want to do your father's wishes."


In this context, the Jews' saying, "We were not born from fornication. We have a father. And he is God," does not mean, "our father is God." Their purpose is to object to the fact that Isa 'alaihis-salam' does not have a father by stating that they are the descendants of Ibrahim 'alaihis-salam'. Since the Gospel of John is documentary according to the Christian faith, we use it as testimony [for our argument]. With respect to these verses of John, i.e. that the Jews claim to be the sons of God and Isa 'alaihis-salam' rejects their claim and calls them 'sons of the devil", these expressions are apparently metaphorical.


The ninth verse of the third chapter of the first epistle of John states: "Everyone who was born from God will not commit sins." The tenth verse states: "The sons of God and the sons of the devil are known by that... ." And it is stated at the beginning of the fifth chapter: "They believe in that Jesus is the Messiah. He was born from God, and everyone who loves the Creator loves the one who was born from. Him. Whenever we love God and do His commandments, we know by this that we love the children of God."


The fourteenth verse of the eighth chapter of the epistle to Romans states: "All of those who are guided by the spirit of God are the sons of God."


The fourteenth verse of the second chapter of Paul's epistle to Phillippians states: "Do everything without being told and without refraining, so that you will hold fast to the word of life, be lights in the world, and be the unblemished children of the defectless and pure God amidst the deformed and depraved generation among whom you appear."


[The sixth and seventh verses of the forty-third chapter of the Book of Isaiah state: "I shall say: Bring my sons from far away and my daughters from the end of earth, that is, every man whom I created, shaped and embodied for my greatness and who is called by my name."


The expressions used in these verses of the Holy Bible, such as (son of God), (sons, or children, of God) are metaphors, and Allahu ta'ala cannot be called (Father) by giving these expressions their literal meanings. Christians also interpret the word (Son) in these verses as (beloved born servant of God) and do not attribute divinity to any of the people mentioned in them. So far, all Christians accept the fact that Allahu ta'ala is the only Ruler. Yet when it comes to Isa 'alaihis-salam', they swerve from the right way].



Misunderstandings have taken place not only as to the word (Father), but also in the word (Son). As a matter of fact, the Gospel of Luke, while mentioning the genealogy, fathers of Isa 'alaihis-salam' (may Allahu ta'ala protect us from believing or saying so) in the twenty- third and later verses of its third chapter, states that he was the son of Joseph the Messiah, and enumerates the fathers of Joseph, finally saying, "... the son of Shiet and Shiet the son of Adam and Adam the son of God." Adam 'alaihis-salam' is not the son of Allahu ta'ala in the actual sense of the word. Luke attributes Adam 'alaihis- salam' to Allahu ta'ala because he was created without parents and Isa 'alaihis-salam' to Joseph the carpenter because he was born only without father. [Christians accept Isa 'alaihis-salam' as a god because God's spirit was breathed into him. Nevertheless, they attribute Joseph the carpenter as a father to him. Isa 'alaihis-salam' was born without a father. On the other hand, Adam 'alaihis-salam' was' created without any parents at all.


Accordingly, they ought to accept Adam 'alaihis-salam' as a god greater than Isa 'alaihis-salam'. No Christian has ever said 'god' about Adam 'alaihis-salam'].


The word (Son) exists in the Old Testament section of the Holy Bible, too. For instance, it is written as follows in the twenty-second verse of the fourth chapter of Exodus: "The Rab says: Israil [Yaqub (Jacob) 'alaihis-salam'] is my first son. Let my son worship me."


It is written as follows in the ninth verse of the thirty-first chapter of the Book of Jeremiah: "I am the father of Israil, and Efrayim is my first son." [If the word 'son' entailed godhood, Israil and Efrayim would have become a god each a very long time before Isa 'alaihis-salam'. Furthermore, they have been attributed the appellation of 'the first son', which means that they should have attained divinity long before another son who came later].


The fourteenth verse of the seventh chapter of Samuel II states as follows about Sulaiman (Solomon) 'alaihis-salam': "I shall be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me."


The first verse of the fourteenth chapter of Deuteronomy states: "You are the sons of the Rab, who is your God." The nineteenth verse of the thirty-second chapter states: "And the Rab saw them and loathed them. For his sons and daughters made him angry." The second verse of the first chapter of the Book of Isaiah states: "O heavens, listen; and o earth, hearken! For God said: I fed and raised sons, but they disobeyed me." The first verse of the thirtieth chapter states: "Woe upon those sons who are disobedient." The eighth verse of the sixty-fourth chapter: "And now, o Rab. Thou art our Father. We are the wet clay, and Thou art our potter, we are all Thine handiwork." The tenth verse of the first chapter of the Book of Joshua: "But the number of the Israelites shall become like the immeasurable, uncountable sand of a sea, and it shall befall that where they are told: You are not my tribe, they shall be told: Thou art the sons of God, who is alive." Here, [and at many other places we have not mentioned, all the Israelites, and also many other people, are called (sons of God). If the expression (son of God) actually meant, (son of God), that is, if it were not a metaphor, the Israelites and] the Israelite Prophets, such as Israeel [Yaqub], Efrayim, Sulaiman, and others 'alaihimus-salam', and Adam 'alaihis-salam' should have been gods. But Jewry, being fully cognizant of their native language, Hebrew, understood very well that such expressions as (son of God), (the first son), (sons) and (daughters) were metaphorically used, and thus they did not fall into error [by divinizing these Prophets]. After the Hawaris (Apostles), however, copies of the Bible and preachings and admonitions of Isa 'alaihis-salam', in pages here and there, were obtained by this person and that haphazardly, and were translated into other languages. And the translators, in their turn, being ignorant and unaware of the subtleties and the stylistic registers in the Hebrew language, translated whatever they saw, word for word without understanding (the message). Those who saw these translations afterwards did not dare to use the words in the translations in connotations other than their literal meanings. All these eventuated in void arguments, wrong, absurd theories, entirely unreasonable, implausible and bizarre doctrines.


Some hundred years after Isa 'alaihis-salam' there appeared a different creed, a different sect with a different Gospel in every country. While rewriting the codices of the Bible, fanatics affiliated with each sect, with a view to propagating their own sect and disproving other sects, inserted some words suitable with their purposes. So many copies of the Bible, and so many resultant controversies among Christians, appeared that in the Nicene Council alone fifty different copies of the Bible that were being read by Christians had been rescinded. Hence, none of the four Gospels have the documentary capacity. Yet, as the Christian faith is based on these four Gospels, we, too, base our argument on their testimony in order to convince Christians.


The Taurah, the part of the Bible called Old Testament, contains no document to testify to the Christian doctrine of trinity. [This fact is also avowed by some priests we have met]. Their strongest proof, the Gospel of John, which is the most dubious and complicated of the Gospels, consists of a few ambiguous statements in the details contained in the other Gospels. For instance: They deduce divinity from the twenty-third verse of the eighth chapter of the Gospel of John, where Isa 'alaihis-salam' states: "You are from this world. I am not from this world." They give such explanations as, "He descended from heaven and changed into a body," for their attributing godhood to Isa 'alaihis-salam'. The meaning of this verse it: "You are busy with worldly connections. I am not." This statement cannot be interpreted as divinity. Besides, the Gospels contain verses contradicting this verse. The nineteenth verse of the fifteenth chapter of the Gospel of John states: "You are not from this world. Yet I have chosen you from the world." The sixteenth and eighteenth verses of the seventeenth chapter state: "As I am not from the world, they are not from the world, either. As you have sent me to the world, so have I sent them to the world." This statement contradicts the verse, "I am not from this world," in the eighth chapter of John.


In these verses, Isa 'alaihis-salam' holds himself and his disciples equal. And the statement, "You are from this world," means, "You aspire after this world." Such figures of speech and idioms are used in every language. (In fact, the English language teem with similes, metaphors, synecdoches, metonymies, allegories, symbolisms, hyperboles, litotes, ironies, innuendos, rhetorical questions, etc.) The Arabic language, on the other hand, has the expressions (Ibn-ul-waqt), (Eb-ul-waqt), (ebna-i-zaman), and (ebna-i-sabil), which mean, respectively, (son of the time), (father of the time), (sons of the time), and (sons of the way). [Time or way cannot have a son. These are all symbolic

expressions.].


Another evidence which Christians put forward in their endeavor to validate trinity is the thirtieth verse of the tenth chapter of the Gospel of John. This verse quotes Isa 'alaihis-salam' as having said, "I and Father are one." This statement cannot be interpreted as divinity or identity, either. For, supposing that Isa 'alaihis- salam' really made this statement, he was a human being with a (self) when he said it, so it is impossible for him to have united with God. [Christians, who indicate this verse as an evidence to prove the divinity of Isa 'alaihis-salam' ought to read on to see what comes after the verse. It is written as follows in the thirtieth and later verses: "I and Father are one. The Jews raised stones from the ground again in order to pelt him. Jesus replied to them: I have shown you many deeds from the Father. Which of these deeds are you stoning me for? The Jews answered him: 'We are stoning you not on account of a good deed, but because of blasphemy, because you have made a god of yourself, a human being as you are.' Is it not written in your canon, 'I said, you are gods'? While those to whom God's word was revealed are called 'gods', are you charging a person whom Father sanctified and sent to earth with blasphemy because I say I am the son of God? If I am doing the Father's deeds, do not believe in me. But even if you do not believe in me, though I am doing them, believe in the deeds so that you will realize that the Father is in me and I am in the Father. They still tried to catch him. And Jesus fled from them." People who saw Isa 'alaihis-salam' himself did not say be was a god. On the contrary, the attempted to kill him on account of this figurative word. Isa 'alaihis-salam', whom Christians accept as a creative god who always has existed and will exist eternally, flees from the Jews. What kind of a god is he who runs away from his creatures?


Another point here is the thirty-fourth verse, "I said: (You are gods)", which Isa 'alaihis-salam' quoted in order to prove his statement, "I and Father are one." It is written in a footnote of the copy of the Bible we have that this verse is the sixth verse of the eighty-second chapter of the Zabur (Psalms) in the Old Testament. This verse in the Psalms is followed by the statement, "And you all are the sons of the Highest." According to the facade meaning of this verse and the statement made by Isa 'alaihis-salam', in addition to Isa 'alaihis-salam', people who are addressed as, "You are gods", become gods. We wonder if any Christian has ever accepted them as gods. Christians, who have posed the statement, "I and Father are one," of Isa 'alaihis-salam' as a testimony for his divinity, reject the gods who are declared in the continuation of the discourse, thus becoming sinners and rebels by disagreeing with Isa 'alaihis-salam', whom they recognize as a god. Will a god lie? If you ask Christians why they do not accept that part, they will say, "Well, that statement is figurative. The statement, 'You are gods,' cannot be taken in its literal sense." If you ask, "Isn't the statement, 'I and Father are one', of Isa 'alaihis-salam' figurative?", they will answer, "Jesus the Lord is divine. This is the basic doctrine of Christianity"]. Another explanation which Christians make of these statements in the Gospel of John is that "Jesus the Messiah is not only a perfect human being but also a perfect god." Yet, since the human properties cannot be separated from man, actual unity of man and god is out of the question. Moreover, Isa 'alaihis-salam' uses this expression not only for himself, but also for the Hawaris (Apostles). It is stated in the twenty-first verse of the seventeenth chapter of the Gospel of John, "O Father, Thou art in me, and I am in Thee. May they be in us," in the twenty-second verse, "The izzat, the honor Thou hast given me I have given to them also, so that they should be one, as we are one," in the twenty-third verse, "I am in them, and Thou art in me. Thus they shall be united in one and the world shall realize that Thou hast sent me and Thou lovest them as Thou lovest me." The expression (be united) in these verses means 'stringent obedience to religious commandments and doing pious deeds,' in which case nothing pertaining to divinity will even occur to one's mind.


Another document which Christians have recourse to as an evidence for trinity is the following episode narrated in the eighth and later verses of the fourteenth chapter of the Gospel of John: "Philippus said unto him: "O Lord, show us the Father. This will suffice for us. Jesus said unto him: I have been with you for such a (long) time. Haven't you known me, o Philippus? As a person who has seen me will have seen Father, how is it that you ask me to show Him?"


Their-this argument is false from two different points of view:


Firstly: It is a fact admitted by Christians as well that it is impossible to see God in the world. In fact, this marifat (of seeing) is interpreted as 'knowing' in the introduction of the book Iz-har-ul-haq. Knowing the Messiah does not mean knowing physically. Hence Christians deduce that it is "Messianic divinity and knowing as regards unification. " This deduction is mandatory according to Christians who believe in trinity. Yet this deduction is wrong, too. For deduction should not be contrary to logical proofs and authentic narratives. This deduction is contrary to logical proofs. For, as we have mentioned earlier, Isa 'alaihis-salam' holds the Hawaris equal to himself.


As it is known by historians, the doctrine of three hypostases, or trinity, is not something new; it is a credo adopted from polytheistic cults. As the number of gods increased so as to attract the attention of the nescient populace and stir up feelings of alertness in them, notables of a polytheistic community would arrange the gods in order of superiority, appointing some of them as chiefs and others as their inferiors. They decided to keep the investigation of this arrangement as a secret among themselves. Zerdusht (Zoroaster or Zarathustra), [the founder of magi, the basic religious system of ancient Persia], chose two of their idols, Yezdan (Ormuzd or (Ahura) Mazda) and Ehremen (Ahriman), as two hypostases, and established an unprecedented system of belief which was based on a curious conflict between Yezdan the god of light and good and Ahriman the god, or spirit, of darkness and evil]. [31]


Mazhar Djan-i-Djanan [32], a great Indian 'alim, states in his fourteenth letter: "Brahminism was a heavenly religion. It was degenerated afterwards." The expression 'three hypostases, was first heard from these people (Brahmins).


[It would be more correct to call it a philosophy, or doctrine, instead of a religion. It is understood that it was founded by the mutilation of a heavenly religion seven hundred years before Isa 'alaihis-salam'. The agent of this mutilation is Brahma. (In Sanskrit) Brahma means holy word. This expression has been used for Isa 'alaihis- salam' in Christianity. When Christians are questioned about the divinity of Isa 'alaihis-salam', their first evidence to prove it is some verses in the first chapter of the Gospel of John, which are, "The word existed in the beginning, and the word was near God, and the word was God" [1, 2, 3], and "And the word became a body and remained silent among us, full of grace and truth. And we saw its honor as the honor of the only son of the Father" [4]. An exact analogue of Brahminism.]. Likewise, members of the Brahministic caste believe in a deity who became a reality in the name of (Brahma). According to their doctrine, a most perfect, ever silent god is the real essence of all. Yet this god does his work through two other gods: Vishnu and Siva (or Shiva). They say that they are one god manifesting in a triad.


According to Brahmins, (Brahma) is the creator of all and the world. He does all the work of creating, and his symbol is the sun. Vishnu is reason. He is a god protecting all. He rules over the time lived in. His symbol is water. And Siva is the god of life and death. He rules over the time lived in and future. Justice and vengeance are his responsibility. His symbol is fire. [Brahmins believe that their god Vishnu lives in heaven. The other gods tell Vishnu that some demons have appeared on the earth and deranged the quietude and order of the earth, and therefore he must be born incarnate on the earth for the chastisement of those demons. Vishnu accepts this suggestion and incarnates as Krishna, the warrior, being born from a virgin of a warrior family in order to purge the earth of evils and demons. The virgin has dreamt of this event beforehand. Krishna learns all knowledge in sixty-four days. He works as a shepherd. He travels far and wide. He displays wonders in places where he travels. Upon seeing this, brahmins accept him as a deity that has descended to earth in a human figure. Many other myths are told about Krishna by the votaries of Brahma. Likewise, Buddhists accept Buddha as a deity. According to Buddhists, Buddha lived in heaven before descending to earth. He looked for a place to appear on earth and eventually decided to be born as a member of the Sudhodana family. (The myth is as follows:) His mother, fasting as she is, falls asleep on the roof of the palace, and has a dream. In her dream a white elephant emitting haloes all around itself descends from heaven and, to her astonishment, enters her womb from her right flank. Many symptoms are seen towards Buddha's birth. His mother leaves her town and delivers her divine son under a tree. Buddhism teems with things which reason or logic could never accept. Brahminism, Buddhism, and the Christian credo, trinity, are analogous, similarities between them, such as a god's entering a virgin and being born from her and people's accepting him as a deity. Here are some of them.


1 - According to Christians, Isa 'alaihis-salam' died, and resurrected three days after death. Krishna, too, resurrected after death, and ascended to heaven.


2 - Isa 'alaihis-salam' resurrected from his grave, and Buddha from his coffin.


3 - Isa 'alaihis-salam' said beforehand that he would be killed, saved the souls in dungeons, that is in Hell, and after resurrecting from his grave sat on the right hand side of God. And Buddha said he would withdraw from the world and go to nirvana.


4 - When Isa 'alaihis-salam' went up to heaven, he took over and began to control all the matters of the universe. Likewise, Buddha established the sultanate of heavens and began to dominate over the universe.


5 - The Gospels unanimously enumerate the fathers of Isa 'alaihis-salam' up to Dawud (David) 'alaihis-salam', whom they call the first Malik (King, Ruler). Likewise, Buddha's genealogy is said to begin with Makavamat the first Ruler.


Trinity and metempsychosis, i.e. belief in the transmigration of a dead person's soul into a new body, existed not only in Indian religions, but also in the ancient Egyptian religions. The best known of the Egyptian deities is (Amonra). His symbol is the sun. He was believed to have created this world with his will and speech. (Osiris), his assistant, is their second deity. Osiris came down to earth, underwent various afflictions, and was killed. He resurrected and ascended to heaven with the help of (Isis), their third deity. Thus Osiris became the god of the dead. Also, in ancient Egypt, kings, or Pharaohs, were believed to be the sons of Amonra (the sun).


Ancient Egyptians believed that when a person died he was called to account by Osiris].


The inventor of the doctrine of three hypostases in the west is the philosopher Time (Timaios), who lived in the city of Lokres some five hundred years before the Christian Era. He was one of the pupils of Pythagoras. He learned this doctrine of three hypostases [beings, bases]. [Pythagoras was born on the Island of Samos in 580 B.C. It is narrated that he died in Metaponte in 500 B.C. There are differing narratives as to the dates of his birth and death. He came to the Kroton city of Italy when he was young yet. Thence he traveled to various places, having long stays in Egypt and the Middle East. During his stay in Egypt he acquired extensive knowledge about the ancient Egyptian religions and cults. Learning the belief in three gods and metempsychosis from the Egyptians, he accepted them. Another thing he learned in Egypt was Hendese (geometry). The theorem known as Pythagoras' proposition (theorem) today was known pragmatically in Egypt in those days. They (such pieces of information as this theorem) had come to Egypt from Babylon, which was at that time very advanced in 'ilm-i-nujum (astronomy), mathematics and astrology. And Babyloneans, in their turn, had been taught these branches of knowledge by the great Prophet Idris [33] 'alaihis-salam', Pythagoras went to Babylon and learned them well. On his returning to the city of Kroton he opened a school, and established a new way, or a new sect, named after him. His votaries have fabled many myths about him and made a Prophet of him, and some of them have professed his deity. Pythagoras said that the essence of being was numbers (arche). He accepted numbers up to ten as sacred. He accepted the numbers of one, two and three as the three essences. Pythagoreans claim that the number one is the unchangeable and eternal source of the universe and therefore the first hypostasis, the number two is feminine and all the world has come into existence through her and she is the second hypostasis, and the number three is the third hypostasis representing the eternal triad in the universe. They assert that these three hypostases are the essence of the world and of the universe. They interpret the essence of universe as (body, life and soul). They say that the universe consists of three worlds, namely (the natural, the human, and the divine worlds). According to the Pythagoreans, as everything is made up of three, creation originates from this triad, which is made up of the creative will, the current of stars, and the ever improving universe. There is detailed information in the book (La Pensee Grecque) by Gomperz about Pythagoras' numbers and other philosophical views. According to Pythagoras, the first hypostasis, i.e. God, who is able to do whatever He wishes, cannot be comprehended mentally. The Pythagoreans, who believe that soul is eternal [immortal] and that a dying person's soul may transmigrate into an animal, do not eat meat. Time, an outstanding disciple of Pythagoras', followed his master's way].


Time states in his book Ruh-ul-alam (Essence of the Universe) "First of all, creatures have a fikr-i-mithal- i-daimi (the eternal ideal pattern), which is the first word, the first hypostasis, which is spiritual, not substantial, and therefore, cannot be comprehended by mind. The second grade is the madde-i-ghyar-i-muntazima, which is the second word pronounced, the second hypostasis. The third grade is the world of son, or meaning, which is the third hypostasis. All the universe consists in these three classes. The son wanted to make a beautiful god, and made a god which was a creature." These statements, complicated and incomprehensible as they were, reached Plato. [There is a narrative stating that Time was one of Plato's teachers. For Plato says that his great master Socrates and Time had been together in a gathering. Time had three works, namely (Mathematics), (Life of Pythagoras), and (Essence of the Universe). Two of them were lost. His book (Essence of the Universe), the one which was not lost, should have busied philosophers very much. For there is not much difference between the idea derived from the first six chapters of this book and the idea in Plato's speech on Time (Timeios)].


Plato modified this idea coming from Time. Plato proposed existence of three gods. He said:


The first one is Father. He is the highest one and the creator; he is the father of the other two gods. He is the first hypostasis.


The second one is the primordial, visible god, who is the representative of Father, who is invisible. It is named (Logos), which means word, reason, (account).


The third one is the Universe.


According to Plato, the essence of beings is meanings [ideas]. [The word idea, which Plato refers to, means entity, conception, archetype. In Platonic philosophy it means the unchanging, eternally existing pattern of which all classes of beings are imperfect copies. Plato divides the universe into two worlds. The first one is the perceptible world of senses. The other one is the real world, that is, the world of ideas. While the real world, or the world of ideas, is eternal, the world of senses continuously changes.] The existence of ideas is not dependent upon our mind or imagination, but they exist in an immaterial life peculiar to them. Plato refers each reality or idea to higher realities. Thus all realities and ideas are referred to the absolute (ONE). This ONE, which is (goodness) consisting of many high realities, is God himself. Other high ideas or realities are in His command. Lower ideas are (evils) and are the devil himself. Other low, evil ideas are in His command.


[Plato said that what he accepted as (ONE), who comprised ideas in Himself and whom he called 'goodness' and believed to be identical with God, was the (Father god), who had motion and life and who was the father of the universe. This is the first hypostasis. Father god, that is, the unity of ideas, created a spirit, which gave matter its systematic order and which was quite different from matter. This is the son of Father. This spirit is a being which intermediates between the creator and the creature, and is the second hypostasis.


Plato, as well as all the other ancient Greek philosophers like Pythagoras and Time learned their views and observations about the spirit which they called 'the second hypostasis' by reading the books of (the Prophets) Adam and Shiet (or Shis) 'alaihimus-salam', or from religious scholars who had read and knew those books, and attempted to explain them with their insufficient knowledge and short range mentalities, thus distorting them. Plato states in his Menon speech that the soul is immortal, that it has come to earth various times, and that it has seen everything in this perceptible (world) and in the imperceptible (hereafter). In his Phaidros speech he divides the soul into three parts: The first is mind, which has been inclined towards ideas. The second and the third are the parts pertaining to aspirations and sensations. One of them follows the mind and leads to goodness, i.e. to God, and the other leads to evil corporeal desires]. Carcass, or body, is a dungeon wherein soul has been hurled after a preliminary sojourn in the incorporeal world of ideas. [Thus mankind, composed of soul and body, came into existence.]. The goal of ethics is to free the soul from the shackles tethering it to the dungeon of body, Seframk says that the way to happiness is in attaining virtue and perfection. Plato says, "Perfection of happiness fully exists in virtue. Virtue and perfection are the health, salvation and balance of soul. For attaining happiness, it will be enough to endeavor only for attaining virtue without thinking of worldly advantages or aspiring for the rewards in the hereafter.


According to the philosophy of (Rawaqiyyun), "goodness alone is virtue, and evil alone is sinful. Health, illness, wealth, poverty, and even life and death are neither good nor bad. It is up to man to make them good or bad. Man has to believe in the preordination of Allahu ta'ala, that is, in destiny, and commit his will to the will of Allahu ta'ala. Humanity is like a flock (of sheep). Their shepherd is the common reason, or (Logos), which is the creative power of nature. All men are brothers. Their common father is (Zoz), or (God). Zoz is the soul of all universe. He is eternal, one. Other gods are his component parts. [Philosophy founded by Zenon and followed by some Greek philosophers is called Rawaqiyyun (Stoicism)].


Followers of the philosophy of (Ishraqiyyun) inculcate peace and mercy; so much so that the pleasure that a person takes in doing good to someone else is more than the pleasure felt when one is done good to, they say. [This philosophy is called (Illuminism), which is an extension of the way followed by Pythagoreans and Platonist. The founder of neo-Platonism is Plotin, who adopted Plato's theory of ideas]. The statement, "The flavor in giving is more than the flavor in taking", which the existing copies of the Bible attribute to Isa 'alaihis-salam', is identical with the main principle of the philosophy of Ishraqiyyun. [This means to say that stoicists and illuminist present the pieces of information they acquired from religious books and religious scholars in a manner as if they were their own views and findings. The great Islamic savant Imam-i-Muhammad Ghazali 'rahmat-ullahi alaih' [34] expounds this fact in detail in his books (Al-munqizu min-ad-dalal) and (Tahafut-ul-falasifa).


The philosophical school founded by Plato lived for seven or eight centuries together with its tenets. The views of this school of philosophy extended beyond Italy, having its most dramatic impact on the Alexandrian school in the third century]. Plato's doctrine of three hypostases, along with his other philosophical views, had made its way into the schools of Alexandria and was being taught there, when Isa 'alaihis-salam' appeared. In fact, even Philo, a renowned Judaic scholar in Alexandria at that time, wished to see this doctrine of trinity among the other tenets of the religion of Musa 'alaihis- salam'. With this desire he said, "The Taurah declares that the world was created in six days; it is true. For the number three is half of six. And the number two is one-third of six. This number is both masculine and feminine. God married reason and had a son by reason. This son is the world." Philo called the world 'kelima-i- ilahiyya (divine word)', which was a name he ascribed to angels, too. This was an effect of Platonic philosophy. [Platonic philosophy, which was later renamed as neo- Platonism and went on its way, dealt the severest blow on the Nazarene, or Isawi, religion. In other words, the third century of the Christian era, when neo-Platonism was at the zenith of its power, was at the same time the period in which Christianity was the religion of the Roman Empire. Adherents of that philosophy defiled this religion of tawhid (unity), which was based on the existence and oneness of Allahu ta'ala and the prophethood of Isa 'alaihis-salam'. Later on idolatry, too, was inserted into this religion. Saint Augustine, who lived in the fourth century of the Christian era, (354-430), tried to Christianize Plato. Augustine's views about God, soul, and the universe, which he proposes in his book (de Trinite), which he wrote with a view to proving trinity, are quite identical with Platonic philosophy. Using Plato's statement, "Reason, will, and sensation make up a human being", as a testimony for proving trinity, he says, "Though the Three Persons in Trinity seem to be disparate, they make up one God." He alleges that Plato and his disciples realized the true God. Taking Plato's philosophy of ideas as a fulcrum, he argues that the Word is creative and that the Word is Isa 'alaihis-salam'. Augustine, who is esteemed and accepted as a saint amongst Christians, acknowledges that such Christian tenets as trinity, good, and evil exist in their exact identities in Plato's philosophy. In addition, he cites Plato's views as a document for proving trinity. The views of a person who died 350 years before the Christian era are identical with the tenets of Christianity: a hard question for Christians to answer. This concurrence shows that Plato was contemporary with Isa 'alaihis-salam', which is the truth. And this truth is explained on the 266 th. Letter of the book (Maktubat) by the great Islamic alim Imam-i-Rabbani Ahmad Faruqi [35] 'rahmat-ullahi alaih."


Furthermore, Saint Thomas, one of the ecclesiastical personages of the eighth century of the Christian era, endeavors to prove the Christian tenets, particularly trinity, by taking the philosophy of Aristotle, who was Plato's disciple. This book of ours is too small for us to mention all the ecclesiastical saints who were the true defenders of the philosophy of Plato and Aristotle. Yet we shall touch upon an illuminatory fact, which will give our readers a more realistic insight into the matter: Throughout the Middle Ages, even after the realization of the Renaissance in Europe, opposing the philosophy of Plato and Aristotle, or refusing it, or even slightly contradicting it was requited with penalty of death by the ecclesiastical tribunal called Inquisition. We wonder how today's trinitarian Christians should explain this? It is certain that philosophy of Plato (Platonism), philosophy of Rawaqiyyun (Stoicism), philosophy of Ishraqiyyun (Gnosticism), and other Greek schools of philosophy had a major role in the formation of the tenets of Christianity. This fact is explained in detail and with proofs in the book titled (The Influence of Greek Ideas on Christianity), by Dr. Edwin Hatch].


As is understood from the above statements, such concepts as purging the heart of wicked traits, attaining happiness by adopting beautiful moral habits, acquiescing in destiny, having tawakkul (putting your trust in Allahu ta'ala), accepting human beings as the sons and children of Allahu ta'ala, and Allahu ta'ala as the common father of all, do not belong exclusively to the Gospels. Hundreds of years before the Gospels they were being discussed among Greek philosophers, [and various philosophers were trying to explain them in various ways. For they had been taught about heavenly religions by Prophets]. It is certain that the statements referring to trinity did not exist in the former heavenly religions or in the genuine copies of the Bible, but they were fabricated by Greek philosophers and were inserted into the Gospels that were written after the spreading of Christianity in Greece and Alexandria.


Isa 'alaihis-salam' was born in a place where people lived up to the principles of the religion of Musa 'alaihis-salam'. Until his Ascension, he acted upon the Shariat of Musa 'alaihis-salam'. The commandments that were assigned to the Israelites he observed with them. He preached in Synagogues and instructed the tenets in the Taurah (Torah). To those who had wandered from the religion of Musa 'alaihis-salam' he preached the religion of Musa 'alaihis-salam', and taught them the manners of observance as prescribed in that religion. He cherished those Israelites who held fast to that religion. Like Jews, he was baptized in the river of Erden (Jordan) by Yahya 'alaihis-salam' (John the Baptist). [The river of Jordan is in Palestine and is 250 kilometers long]. He was circumcised when he was born. He did not baptize anybody. He fasted. He did not eat pork. He did not say, "God entered me, I am the son of God eternally in the past and eternally in the future. My person is composed of two components; a mature human being; and the son of God, which is divine." Nor did he say, "The Holy Spirit acts upon the common commandment of my father and me. Believe in three deities, who are Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit." He said, "I came to consolidate the Shariat (the canonical law of Musa 'alaihis-salam'),not to change it." All books of history agree to the fact that there was no such notion as trinity among the Nazarites; neither during the lifetime of Isa 'alaihis-salam', nor in the Apostles' Creed.


It was towards the termination of the second century of the Christian era that the expression 'There Persons' emerged among Christians. Because this doctrine was extremely at loggerheads with the religion preached by Isa 'alaihis-salam', those who believed in Three Persons concealed their belief from Christians for some time; but they strove to disseminate it in a clandestine way. Meanwhile, upholders of trinity [three gods], with a view to popularizing the course they had taken, published the Gospel of John and the so-called Apostolic epi

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canadianhorsefan, I don't have time to read your entire post right now, but allow me to go on record as saying that there is only one God, Jehovah (YWHW):

"This is what the LORD says-
Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God." (Isaiah 4:6, NIV)

Therefore, to say that there are three god's is blasphemy, contrary to the teaching of the Bible, not the definition of the word trinity according to any dictionary I have referenced, nor the teaching of Christians with whom I would agree.