Is Jesus God ?!!

[mms20102]

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .

In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .

At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger

as for a start i will ask a question :

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 1 by mms20102]

Hi there, mms20102

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .

In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .

At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger

as for a start i will ask a question :

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

I don't think the Bible has Jesus ever saying outright that he is god or a god or the god ... all of that.. is inferred, like the idea of the Trinity. If we are making things up, why NOT make up a god/man/son/rabbi/magician/king/lamb/sacrificial scapegoat/apocalyptic prophet of doom and gloom and hippy love.

As for the qualifications.. I think the theologians have their tests. Part written, part verbal, and it helps if you have had some experience at creating worlds. But they offer on the job training, so no worries. You really need ENTHUSIASM, because there, gods work as a team ( teams of three ).

Hope you get the job.
NEXT.......

[JehovahsWitness]

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God

All Christians do not believe Jesus is Almighty God. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I can testify to that.

there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet

There are no contradictions in the bible. The bible identifies Jesus as both a Prophet and the Son of God.

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

In the bible the word God (El in Hebrew) is a very general term that can be applied to anyone real or fictional, human or spirit that has a degree of power. The same term in plural form Elohim applies only to the God Creator in scripture. Another term El Shaddai Almighty is only applied to YHWH Jehovah the God of the bible.


Any questions?


JW

[Elijah John]

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .

In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .

At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger

as for a start i will ask a question :

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

Welcome to the site, MMS.

First, not all Christians believe Jesus is God. There is no good evidence that the Apostles did, nor did his early disciples.

And I am a Christian who does not believe Jesus is God.

JW is a Christian who does not believe Jesus is God. No Jehovah's Witness does.

And there are more than a few on this site who see Jesus as the SON of God, but not God Himself.

Nowhere does the Bible say these three simple words: "Jesus is God" nor does Jesus ever say of himself: "I am God".

And since we are debating characteristics, YHVH God is Omniscient, all-knowing.

Jesus is not.

[liamconnor]

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .

In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .

At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger

as for a start i will ask a question :

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

Some qualifications for God are 1) omnipotence 2) omnipresence 3) omniscience etc. Obviously Jesus lacked these.

One could ask, "What are the qualifications for God Incarnate?"

One could go further, "What are the qualifications for God incarnate with a particular agenda?" Now we have to inquire about that agenda, and see how it effects our expectations.

As for direct evidence: Should I presume that some evidence is inadmissible? For instance, any red-letter bible will show Jesus saying

12 "Behold, aI am coming quickly, and My breward is with Me, cto render to every man 1according to what he has done.
13 "I am the aAlpha and the Omega, bthe first and the last, cthe beginning and the end."
14 Blessed are those who awash their robes, that they may have the right to bthe tree of life, and may center by the dgates into the city.
15 aOutside are the bdogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
16 a"I, Jesus, have sent bMy angel to testify to you these things 1cfor the churches. I am dthe root and the eoffspring of David, the bright fmorning star."
(Rev 22:12-16 NAS)

The terms "first and last" are an allusion to Isaiah, where YHWH employs them.


Should we also assume that the ascended Jesus was not involved in the ministry of the church, and therefore did not intervene when his divinity was proclaimed?

[Willum]

[Replying to mms20102]

No, Jesus isn't a god, but then who is?

The requirements for a god are rather paltry. Look to the first Sumerian gods, which are identical to the OT gods (sorry hosts, etc., well Elohim is the plural of the els', which means 'god.'), and these are very humble requirements. No need for all-power, invented by the Greeks in the 3rd century BC, and jealously copied by others, since.

What would you yourself require to worship some entity as a god? Control of the harvest? Rain and water? Birth, growth, etc.?

We find that as man has mastered these things, irrigation, cultivation, our requirements for God have grown. Even now, we find that we are at another impasse where our primitive minds hid God, we can now look for him, and not find him.

So, what are the qualifications of God, for a man that can do everything?
(Great OP, thank you!)

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 3 by JehovahsWitness]

Hi, JehovahsWitness

No "mumbo jumbo hocus posus abracadabra now you see it now you don't" Jesus for ME

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God

All Christians do not believe Jesus is Almighty God. As one of Jehovah's Witnesses I can testify to that.

That's interesting.. So, Jesus being a god is debatable even among Christians? Wouldn't that make of them secular Christians like the secular Jews? .. is that what you're talking about? They might "follow" Jesus, but not the mumbo jumbo hocus pocus parts that go along with the stories.

there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet

There are no contradictions in the bible.

I really do think that you might want to add "IN MY OPINION" somewhere in that sentence. It's kinda hard to prove. I imagine veteran debaters chuckling over that one.

The bible identifies Jesus as both a Prophet and the Son of God.

Sure, the Bible says a whole lotta things. Opinions differ, as you have noticed and pointed out to us all. "All Christians do not believe Jesus is Almighty God" is how I think you put it.

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

In the bible the word God (El in Hebrew) is a very general term that can be applied to anyone real or fictional, human or spirit that has a degree of power. The same term in plural form Elohim applies only to the God Creator in scripture. Another term El Shaddai Almighty is only applied to YHWH Jehovah the God of the bible.


Any questions?

Me me me me ... please sir!

People have all kinds of ideas about what the word "god" is supposed to refer to, exactly. You seem to imply that you KNOW just what it is it REALLY means.

So, those labels.. what do they MEAN other than labels? El can be applied to fantasy, and the plural can't.. ok... But what does that mean?

Doesn't it mean that the plural form "Elohim" can be applied to a fictional god who is claimed to be real, and not JUST a fictional god that isn't claimed to be real?

I am TRYING to figure out just what it is you mean. God is a creator.. ok fine. That's the claim. Now, IS JESUS a god or not? I think you say "yes" to that?

How could anyone KNOW one way or the other?

Cause it says so in a book?

[JLB32168]

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

Are we actually going to assume that for the sake of argument that God exists? Or is every rebuttal of a skeptic's argument going to repair to the argument, "Well . . . you can't even prove that God exists?"

If it's the latter (which always seems to be the case) then I see little point in debating the question.

Assuming that the answer is “Yes, we’ll assume for the sake of argument that the Judeo-Christian deity exists,� then there are two states of being in the created universe – that which is created and that, which is uncreated. God is the uncreated Creator of everything else that isn’t Him. According to Christian theology the Son of God existed with the Father and the HS and is uncreated. When the SoG became a H. sapiens he took the name “Jesus.�

[Divine Insight]

As for all Christians its known by nature that Jesus is God yet there are many contradictions in the bible that can prove that Jesus is only a prophet .

In this debate i want every one who has a good knowledge to give the reasonable proofs that Jesus is god or at any point of the bible where Jesus said worship me .

At the same time i will be providing proofs from the bible that Jesus is not God but only a messenger

as for a start i will ask a question :

What Are The Qualification Of God ?!

From a Christian perspective I would argue the following:

Christianity in no way proclaims that Jesus is "God".

To the contrary it holds that Jesus is the "Only Begotten Son of God".

The Christian Gospels proclaim that no one comes to the Father but through the Son.

John.14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

The Christian Gospels proclaim that all Judgement has been given to the Son.

John.5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

The Christian Gospels proclaim that Jesus sits at the right hand of God.

Mark.16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

So Christianity holds that Jesus is clearly NOT God.

However, Christianity does hold that Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God (not merely a prophet), and that no one comes to the Father but through Jesus, and that all judgement has been given to Jesus and the Father God judgeth no man, and that Jesus now sits in heaven at the right hand of God obviously judging all of humanity.

So whether Jesus is "God" or not seems irrelevant to the fate of humans. Humans must now appease Jesus in order to get to God anyway. So for all intents and purposes Jesus now serves as the "God over humans". And trying to get directly to God without going through his only begotten Son Jesus would clearly be impossible in Christianity, because no one comes to the Father but by Jesus.

Hope this helps you to better understand Christianity.

Christianity in no way claims that Jesus "Is God". It merely claims that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God who has been given full authority by God to judge all humans.

[JLB32168]

From a Christian perspective I would argue the following: Christianity in no way proclaims that Jesus is "God".

Do you mean “Christianity� or “The Christian Bible� or “the NT?� Normative Christianity subscribes to the twelve articles of the Nicene Creed – either in exact wording or in Statements of Belief that teach essentially the same thing. “Light of Light, True God of True God, Begotten not made, of once essence w/the Father by whom all things are made,� seems to run counter to the assertion that Christianity doesn’t proclaim that Jesus is God.

To the contrary it holds that Jesus is the "Only Begotten Son of God".

What species of animal is the young of a female F. domesticus or common housecat?

So Christianity holds that Jesus is clearly NOT God.

What do you make of John’s Prologue – the first eighteen verses of the 1st Chapter? What do you make of Luke and Matthew’s recording of a virgin giving birth to a kid – a motif (virgins giving birth to gods) that was quite common in the area? What do you make of John saying, “I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way of YHWH’,� and pointed out that he was preparing the way for Christ.

It seems you’re just facilely dismissing evidence contra your argument.