Are there any valid Biblical prophesies?

[McCulloch]

There are several ways in which a prediction of the future can be fulfilled, without invoking the supernatural:

1. The prophecy can be written or modified after the events fulfilling it have already occurred.
2. The prophecy can be worded in such a way that people can interpret any outcome as a fulfillment. Nostradomus's prophecies are all of this type. Vagueness works particularly well when people are religiously motivated to believe the prophecies.
3. The prophecy can predict something that is almost sure to happen, such as the collapse of a city. Since nothing lasts forever, the city is sure to fall someday. If it has not, it can be said that according to prophecy, it will.
4. One can claim that the fulfilling events occurred even if they have not.
5. Self-fulfillment. A person can act deliberately to satisfy a known prophecy. Or the person recording the event alleged to have fulfilled the prophecy, knew the prophesy and altered or invented the record in order to fulfill it.

Are there any fulfilled prophecies in the Bible that cannot easily fit into one or more of those categories?

[McCulloch]

Joshua said that God would, without fail, drive out the Jebusites and Canaanites, among others.

Then Joshua said to the sons of Israel, "Come here, and hear the words of the LORD your God."
Joshua said, "By this you shall know that the living God is among you, and that He will assuredly dispossess from before you the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Hivite, the Perizzite, the Girgashite, the Amorite, and the Jebusite.

But those tribes were not driven out.

Now as for the Jebusites, the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the sons of Judah could not drive them out; so the Jebusites live with the sons of Judah at Jerusalem until this day.

But the sons of Manasseh could not take possession of these cities, because the Canaanites persisted in living in that land. It came about when the sons of Israel became strong, they put the Canaanites to forced labor, but they did not drive them out completely.

Ezekiel said Egypt would be made an uninhabited wasteland for forty years.

therefore, behold, I am against you and against your rivers, and I will make the land of Egypt an utter waste and desolation, from Migdol to Syene and even to the border of Ethiopia.
"A man's foot will not pass through it, and the foot of a beast will not pass through it, and it will not be inhabited for forty years.
"So I will make the land of Egypt a desolation in the midst of desolated lands And her cities, in the midst of cities that are laid waste, will be desolate forty years; and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands."
'For thus says the Lord GOD, "At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the peoples among whom they were scattered.
"I will turn the fortunes of Egypt and make them return to the land of Pathros, to the land of their origin, and there they will be a lowly kingdom.

Ezekiel said that Nebuchadrezzar would plunder Egypt.

Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I will give the land of Egypt to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon And he will carry off her wealth and capture her spoil and seize her plunder; and it will be wages for his army.
"I have given him the land of Egypt for his labor which he performed, because they acted for Me," declares the Lord GOD.

Neither happened.

[Cephus]

Nope, there are none whatsoever. You simply cannot demonstrate that a specific time, place, person and event, foretold demonstrably in advance, ever happened. Biblical prophecies are terribly vague and have to be twisted into a pretzel to make any sense of them.

Passages that do mention specifics have simply been demonstrated to be false. In Ezekiel 26:7-14, Ezekiel also prophesied that Nebuchadnezzar would destroy Tyre, which would never again be rebuilt. That gives names and places and although the time period was close to the so-called fulfillment, I'll let that slide for the moment. The simple fact is that Nebuchadnezzar never destroyed Tyre at all and the city still exists today.

So much for prophecy.

[Zzyzx]

.
Fortune tellers’ prognostications resemble biblical “prophesies” by being suitably vague and broad – predictions that can claim to be true sometime in the future AND by incorporating “plausible deniability” (borrowed by crooks in government) by being vague enough to avoid being shown to be in error.

In addition, biblical writers, transcribers, revisionists, modifiers, etc had an agenda of promoting their religion (or why write). Writings in what became known as the New Testament can be expected to have had access to earlier writings. Those who later modified the NT text certainly had OT for reference.

Those conditions and agendas could be expected to produce as favorable a picture as possible, including the idea that earlier writings incorporated into their religion were correct -- filling in the blanks after the test, so to speak.

[Cathar1950]

This topic is often neglected.
Interpolation and later editing and redaction also play a part.
I have read where someone defends the bible claiming there is a theme through their holy book when what we see is the hands of many uptight pious priests at work often even reversing the ideas of the original writings. Helms give examples of Job being worked over until it means the opposite of the intent of the story which was to find fault that the righteous prosper and the wicked perish. They end up equating wisdom with the obedience to the law where Job is clearly about the wisdom of experience and injustice. It is now a convoluted mess.

I found these book of interest:
“When Prophecy Failed: Cognitive Dissonance in the Prophetic Traditions of the Old Testament” by Robert Carroll, “Biblical Prophecy: Failure or Fulfillment” by Tim Callahan and “The Bible Against Itself” by Randel McCraw Helms.
From another post:
Tim Callahan gives a list of the so-called prophesies.
From something I wrote in another thread:
Callahan's book "Bible Prophesy: Failure of fulfillment” He takes McDowell's("Evidence that demands a verdict"). 61 prophesies of Jesus and pokes holes in them. He says the prophesies amount to Duplication, Statements to obvious to be prophesy, Circular reasoning, Misinterpretation of prophesy, Prophesy taken out of context, Translation errors, interpretation of prophesies that that stretch the definitions excessively and Prophesies that are so vague as to be equally open to a number of interpretations.
It is a big house of cards held together by desire.

The list pretty Much looks like Mack's.
Of course it isn't only non-believers that have noticed these problems as many Christian Scholars over the centuries have looked at them questionably.
Even the use of phrases lifted from the LXX in the NT are created from the LXX writings and a fiction lifted from another book out of context is still not a prophesy as much as it is a allegory or metaphor, yet some insist it is somehow fact, history and literal often taken to the point where it is irrelevant and misses most of their own points or teachings for reassurance for their faith or belief mostly generated by desire.
I remember someone posted a list of so-called prophesies and if you look at them they are very questionable and taken together speak loudly of any sense that could be made out of them.

[McCulloch]

Are there any fulfilled prophecies in the Bible that cannot easily fit into one or more of those categories?

The Koran is just a book likes any other book, but the Bible is not like any other book, for it is the inspire Word of God. The Bible is so accurate in as much as that every prophecy that was said concerning Jesus Christ came to pass accurately. Therefore, there is no book in the whole Word that can predict something before hand and expect it to happen just as predicted.

LOSANO, do you have any particular prophesy in mind that can be authenticated?

Is the bible the word of God ?

==============================
The Bible is believed to be 'God-breathed' for all the following reasons combined - plus faith
1. 2Tim 3:16
2. Fullfilled prophecies
3. Unity of Scriptures
4. The Bible presents its heroes truthfully with their faults
5. Archealogical findings support History of Scripture
All this can be easily researched on the internet.

I cannot find on the internet any fulfilled Biblical prophesies that require supernatural explanation. Byhisgrace, would you please provide one for discussion.

[quote="In "Salvation" from what? Easyrider"]

The Bible is filled with prophecy that didn't happen.

Nuts. Here's just one of numerous examples of fulfilled prophecy:

http://brittgillette.com/WordPress/?p=28[/quote]A ha! a prophesy to examine.

The rebirth of Israel as an independent nation in 1948 is one of the most significant events in world history. Never before has an entire race of people been without a homeland for so long without assimilating into surrounding populations. However, no other conquered race had the promise of God to “give all this land of Canaan to you and to your offspring forever.” Genesis 17:8 (NLT)

The scriptures prophesied that Israel would be dispersed among the nations then brought out from among them in a gradual process that would culminate in the establishment of Israel as a nation in a single day. And that’s exactly what happened. The Bible also foretold the exact year in which this would happen. Those who study the Word of God recognize the restoration of Israel as the primary sign of the end of the age. Jesus promised the generation that witnessed this event would also witness His return. Matthew 24:34 (NLT)

Long ago the Bible predicted these events would transpire in the last days:

1. The gathering of the Jews into their homeland
2. The rebirth of Israel in a single day
3. The rebirth of Israel in the year 1948
4. Israel’s possession of Jerusalem
5. The nations of the earth aligned against Israel
6. The war of Gog / Magog
7. The rebuilding of the Jewish Temple

Five of these seven prophetic events have already been fulfilled, and the final two are certain to follow.

The Gathering of the Jews

Numerous biblical prophecies foretold of the re-gathering of Israel as a nation. Approximately 2,700 years ago, God revealed to the prophet Ezekiel a “Valley of Dry Bones” (Ezekiel Chapter 37). God spoke of these bones (the Jews) gathered together and covered with flesh and muscles (re-gathered from the nations) with life being breathed into them (a dead nation brought to life once again).

“Then he said to me, ‘Son of man, these bones represent the people of Israel. They are saying, ‘We have become old, dry bones – all hope is gone.’ Now give them this message from the Sovereign Lord: O my people, I will open your graves of exile and cause you to rise again. Then I will bring you back to the land of Israel. When this happens, O my people, you will know that I am the Lord.” Ezekiel 37:11-13 (NLT)

Beginning in the late 19th Century, the birth of the Zionist movement culminated in the gradual emigration of Jews from all over the world to resettle the land of Israel. Each decade the number of returning Jews increased, until finally the nation of Israel came to life once again in 1948.

Israel Becomes a Nation in a Single Day

God foretold long ago that after He brought His scattered people out from among the nations, He would declare them to be a nation in a single day:

“‘Who has ever seen or heard of anything as strange as this? Has a nation ever been born in a single day? Has a country ever come forth in a mere moment? But by the time Jerusalem’s birth pains begin, the baby will be born; the nation will come forth. Would I ever bring this nation to the point of birth and then not deliver it?’ asks the Lord. ‘No! I would never keep this nation from being born,’ says your God.” Isaiah 66:8-9 (NLT)

This is exactly what happened on May 14, 1948. Having been brought to the brink of extinction by the horrors of the Holocaust, facing persecution around the world, and surrounded by their enemies, the Jewish people gathered together in Israel and declared themselves a nation in a single day. The United States recognized Israel as a nation on that same day, and Israel’s victories in the wars since have solidified their place among the nations of the world.

Israel an Object of Scorn in the Last Days

The prophet Zechariah noted the following would be true of Israel in the last days:

“I will make Jerusalem and Judah like an intoxicating drink to all the nearby nations that send their armies to besiege Jerusalem. On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone, a burden for the world. None of the nations who try to lift it will escape unscathed.” Zechariah 12:2-3 (NLT)

The rebirth of Israel in 1948 has been accompanied by constant war and conflict with surrounding Muslim nations. The main focus of world attention today concerns Israel’s relationship with its neighbors. Just as God foretold, Israel has become a “burdensome stone” for the world’s political leaders. The majority of the Islamic countries surrounding Israel have made it clear their primary goal is the destruction of Israel. However, God has made it clear that Israel is here to stay.

I find it odd that more Bible believers are not providing numerous examples of fulfilled prophesy here to knock down my skeptical atheistic claims.

[Goat]

Are there any fulfilled prophecies in the Bible that cannot easily fit into one or more of those categories?

The Koran is just a book likes any other book, but the Bible is not like any other book, for it is the inspire Word of God. The Bible is so accurate in as much as that every prophecy that was said concerning Jesus Christ came to pass accurately. Therefore, there is no book in the whole Word that can predict something before hand and expect it to happen just as predicted.

LOSANO, do you have any particular prophesy in mind that can be authenticated?

Is the bible the word of God ?

==============================
The Bible is believed to be 'God-breathed' for all the following reasons combined - plus faith
1. 2Tim 3:16
2. Fullfilled prophecies
3. Unity of Scriptures
4. The Bible presents its heroes truthfully with their faults
5. Archealogical findings support History of Scripture
All this can be easily researched on the internet.

I cannot find on the internet any fulfilled Biblical prophesies that require supernatural explanation. Byhisgrace, would you please provide one for discussion.

[quote="In "Salvation" from what? Easyrider"]

The Bible is filled with prophecy that didn't happen.

Nuts. Here's just one of numerous examples of fulfilled prophecy:

http://brittgillette.com/WordPress/?p=28

A ha! a prophesy to examine.

The rebirth of Israel as an independent nation in 1948 is one of the most significant events in world history. Never before has an entire race of people been without a homeland for so long without assimilating into surrounding populations. However, no other conquered race had the promise of God to “give all this land of Canaan to you and to your offspring forever.” Genesis 17:8 (NLT)

The scriptures prophesied that Israel would be dispersed among the nations then brought out from among them in a gradual process that would culminate in the establishment of Israel as a nation in a single day. And that’s exactly what happened. The Bible also foretold the exact year in which this would happen. Those who study the Word of God recognize the restoration of Israel as the primary sign of the end of the age. Jesus promised the generation that witnessed this event would also witness His return. Matthew 24:34 (NLT)

Long ago the Bible predicted these events would transpire in the last days:

1. The gathering of the Jews into their homeland
2. The rebirth of Israel in a single day
3. The rebirth of Israel in the year 1948
4. Israel’s possession of Jerusalem
5. The nations of the earth aligned against Israel
6. The war of Gog / Magog
7. The rebuilding of the Jewish Temple

Five of these seven prophetic events have already been fulfilled, and the final two are certain to follow.

The Gathering of the Jews

Numerous biblical prophecies foretold of the re-gathering of Israel as a nation. Approximately 2,700 years ago, God revealed to the prophet Ezekiel a “Valley of Dry Bones” (Ezekiel Chapter 37). God spoke of these bones (the Jews) gathered together and covered with flesh and muscles (re-gathered from the nations) with life being breathed into them (a dead nation brought to life once again).

“Then he said to me, ‘Son of man, these bones represent the people of Israel. They are saying, ‘We have become old, dry bones – all hope is gone.’ Now give them this message from the Sovereign Lord: O my people, I will open your graves of exile and cause you to rise again. Then I will bring you back to the land of Israel. When this happens, O my people, you will know that I am the Lord.” Ezekiel 37:11-13 (NLT)

Beginning in the late 19th Century, the birth of the Zionist movement culminated in the gradual emigration of Jews from all over the world to resettle the land of Israel. Each decade the number of returning Jews increased, until finally the nation of Israel came to life once again in 1948.

Israel Becomes a Nation in a Single Day

God foretold long ago that after He brought His scattered people out from among the nations, He would declare them to be a nation in a single day:

“‘Who has ever seen or heard of anything as strange as this? Has a nation ever been born in a single day? Has a country ever come forth in a mere moment? But by the time Jerusalem’s birth pains begin, the baby will be born; the nation will come forth. Would I ever bring this nation to the point of birth and then not deliver it?’ asks the Lord. ‘No! I would never keep this nation from being born,’ says your God.” Isaiah 66:8-9 (NLT)

This is exactly what happened on May 14, 1948. Having been brought to the brink of extinction by the horrors of the Holocaust, facing persecution around the world, and surrounded by their enemies, the Jewish people gathered together in Israel and declared themselves a nation in a single day. The United States recognized Israel as a nation on that same day, and Israel’s victories in the wars since have solidified their place among the nations of the world.

Israel an Object of Scorn in the Last Days

The prophet Zechariah noted the following would be true of Israel in the last days:

“I will make Jerusalem and Judah like an intoxicating drink to all the nearby nations that send their armies to besiege Jerusalem. On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone, a burden for the world. None of the nations who try to lift it will escape unscathed.” Zechariah 12:2-3 (NLT)

The rebirth of Israel in 1948 has been accompanied by constant war and conflict with surrounding Muslim nations. The main focus of world attention today concerns Israel’s relationship with its neighbors. Just as God foretold, Israel has become a “burdensome stone” for the world’s political leaders. The majority of the Islamic countries surrounding Israel have made it clear their primary goal is the destruction of Israel. However, God has made it clear that Israel is here to stay.

I find it odd that more Bible believers are not providing numerous examples of fulfilled prophesy here to knock down my skeptical atheistic claims.[/quote]

I find it odd that they are promoting Israel as a 'fulfilled prophecy' because the nation of Israel that is prophesied is religious in nature,and the government of Israel is pretty secular. It odes not have the Torah as it's center, and while many Jews have immigrated to Israel, to be sure,there are still many more Jews outside of israel than in it.

[ablessedman50]

There are hundreds if not thousands of fulfilled prophecies in the Bible. The unbeliever will always find an excuse not to believe in any of them no matter how much evidence or proof. There are aprox. 300 in the old testament alone about Christ or The Messiah that were all fulfilled 100%. The Temple being destroyed the first time & rebuilt, the second by the Romans, proven historical facts etc., etc., Do just a little research & anyone with intelligence can see that the Bible & PROVEN Science must go hand in hand. Scientist's have not been able to disprove anything in the Bible. Hmmm Sand & sea shells all over the world, in deserts, on mountaintops, hmmm THE FLOOD

[Goat]

There are hundreds if not thousands of fulfilled prophecies in the Bible. The unbeliever will always find an excuse not to believe in any of them no matter how much evidence or proof. There are aprox. 300 in the old testament alone about Christ or The Messiah that were all fulfilled 100%. The Temple being destroyed the first time & rebuilt, the second by the Romans, proven historical facts etc., etc., Do just a little research & anyone with intelligence can see that the Bible & PROVEN Science must go hand in hand. Scientist's have not been able to disprove anything in the Bible. Hmmm Sand & sea shells all over the world, in deserts, on mountaintops, hmmm THE FLOOD

Ah yes.. the 'FLOOD'. Thing is, those fossils are dated to MILLIONS of years old. We know how they got to the mountain tops... because of this thing known as 'tectonic plates'. Gosh.. we have something that we have this little detail known as 'evidence'.
A lot of this evidence demonstrates the 'FLOOD' as believed by a certain group of "bible Believers' did not occur.

Gosh. and they aren't able to come up with any prophecies that can stand up under scrutiny at all. They just get huffy, and declare the person who disagrees with them as 'spiritually undiscerning'... not a very convincing arguement, don't you think?

[Nec Spe Nec Metu]

There are hundreds if not thousands of fulfilled prophecies in the Bible. The unbeliever will always find an excuse not to believe in any of them no matter how much evidence or proof. There are aprox. 300 in the old testament alone about Christ or The Messiah that were all fulfilled 100%. The Temple being destroyed the first time & rebuilt, the second by the Romans, proven historical facts etc., etc., Do just a little research & anyone with intelligence can see that the Bible & PROVEN Science must go hand in hand. Scientist's have not been able to disprove anything in the Bible. Hmmm Sand & sea shells all over the world, in deserts, on mountaintops, hmmm THE FLOOD

Ah yes.. the 'FLOOD'. Thing is, those fossils are dated to MILLIONS of years old. We know how they got to the mountain tops... because of this thing known as 'tectonic plates'. Gosh.. we have something that we have this little detail known as 'evidence'.
A lot of this evidence demonstrates the 'FLOOD' as believed by a certain group of "bible Believers' did not occur.

Gosh. and they aren't able to come up with any prophecies that can stand up under scrutiny at all. They just get huffy, and declare the person who disagrees with them as 'spiritually undiscerning'... not a very convincing arguement, don't you think?

I would honestly expecting the living, breathing 'Word of God' in all his magnificence and omnipotence not to contain a single error, or fallacy, and fulfill all prophecies to a T. Instead, it's interesting that the Bible is almost the polar opposite of this, and furthermore only promotes the primitive and incorrect "knowledge" of the people who wrote it, who seemed to just ascribe their beliefs to some faceless creator.