The fight for the souls of our Youth.

[Ooberman]

I was listening to a Xian podcast (Apologetics.com):

Youth & Culture: Introducing Them To Abundant Living

Author: Harry Edwards, Jeremy Livermore, Sara Roberts Author: &Author: Sam Welbaum
Mon, Jul 26, 2010


A recent Barna survey reported that the younger generation today was more than twice as likely as all other adults to engage in behaviors considered morally inappropriate by traditional standards. For example, two-thirds of the under 25 year old segment (65%) of the population had used profanity in public, compared to just one out of five Boomers (19%). The younger group, known as Mosaics, was nine times more likely than were Boomers to have engaged in sex outside of marriage (38% vs. 4%), six times more likely to have lied (37% vs. 6%), almost three times more likely to have gotten drunk (25% vs. 9%) and to have gossiped (26% vs. 10%), and twice as likely as Boomers to have observed pornography (33% vs. 16%) and to have engaged in acts of retaliation (12% vs. 5%).

Without question, our young people today face enormous challenges as it redefines what it means to do the right thing in their own lives. Unfortunately it appears these challenges are met with little resistance. Listen as we explore some of the causes of moral decline among the youth and discuss practical ways to overcome them. Hosting the show is Harry Edwards with special guests Sara Roberts, Sam Welbaum and Jeremy Livermore.

http://www.learnoutloud.com/podcaststre ... itle=20072

I can't type fast enough to tell you how amazed I was at how out-of-touch Xianity and evangelic Xians are with respect to the modern age and youth in general.

There is such a rift that I can see why the Youth are running from Xianity.


For one, they were technophobes and talked about the amazing technology kids use today with disdain - wow, way to endear yourself to the Renaissance Fair group! I'm sure they make up a huge segment of the population!


But the worst part was how they talked about the youth being immoral (all the time ignoring they are basing their idea of morality on 2000 year old social mores that included some really ugly ideas: homophobia, etc.

Then they railed on the youth for being egotistical and narssistic. to the point that one youth leader took a poll of her kids and they scored a 19 on a narsisitc scale, when the average is 15.

She said this showed how vain kids were and how they need to be brought down a peg! The whole tenor was "these kids don't know whats good for them - feeling good about themselves is bad - they need to humble themselves before the archaic and incomprehensible rules of Jesus...."

At first I thought, oh, these people want to help lessen drug use and teen-pregnancy, but it simply switched into "They don't follow Jesus properly, they don't want to, they are vain, they have all that high-falootin technology".

Xianity does this: it tells you over and over again that you are wretched, but then when they are about to lose you, they say - oh, but in God's eye you are special.

They don't think that telling someone the Creator of the Universe is interested in them would increase their good feelings about themselves! In fact, isn't that what they claim: that when they found Jesus they felt good about themselves?

But then they have a person responsble for bringing up kids this is bad?!?!?!? That is horrible.


I'm still listening to it and it is starting to make me sick.. There are so many stupid Xians that feel they are capable of talking to kids and forming their minds and then they rail on kids?

One guy said, "Oh, yeah, and there's that AD, uh, Attention, uh disorder.."

DUDE! if you don't even know what it is called STFU and don't talk about it!

I'm sick of these morons who don't know a damn thing other than the standard company line of Xian manipulation and think they are qualified to lead children.

It's very disturbing.

I am going to finish listening to this and hope that I understand their sick methods better so I can help destroy this horrible manipulation - of children no less!

To listen to them talk about their method of attracting kids to the church is grotesque.


Anyhow, has anyone else heard this kid of slop from the Xian youth group leaders?

[amptramp]

Evangelicals dislike technology because it enables people to find out things for themselves rather than hang on every word spoken by the minister.

Christians hate technology? Christians are somehow keeping the rest of humanity from using it? Are you nuts?

Show by any method or rule or statement of fact that this is remotely true. Your technological tangential remark is completely unfounded and proves nothing except that you are a religious bigot and an ignorant one at that. I know of no Christian that is opposed to technology. Even the Amish use it where practical. Technology fails us every day in one way or another. Is that any reason to place guilt upon a particular group of people? Do you also wish to murder a Christian when your refrigerator defrosts all your food?

Some churches still have a list of banned books, so the printing press is one piece of technology that some Christians are at odds with. This is not specific to evangelicals, Catholics and Muslims have this and I had one Muslim technician working in our group who attended a "Rushdie must die" demonstration. Indeed, we have a thread on "The Da Vinci Code" with some people of the opinion that it is sacrilege.

Evangelicals hate and fear this piece of equipment more than anything:



This is a radiocarbon dating machine that shows this particular moa hip bone is 15,000 years old, defying the 6000-year old earth dogma.

Evangelicals have a love/hate relationship with television and the movies. Obviously, televangelists do not object to television - it is a huge money-maker for them. I have been in churches where a fortune has been spent on studio equipment. But of course, some movies and television programs are not in line with doctrine, so the evangelicals do not give it any endorsement unless they are using (and profiting from) it. When aimed at presenting a different point of view, these technologies draw their censure. Indeed, there is a link to 461 contradictions in the Bible that I ran into in another thread which some of them would treat as heresy so they want to control the internet as well.

In all, evangelicals long for a simpler time when the minister had authority, all communication was in one direction, from the pulpit to the parishioners and there were no distracting influences from people with alternative ideas. So am I still nuts, bigoted or ignorant? Or am I simply seeing what is in front of me in spite of all the evangelicals telling me to trust only them, not what I know through other avenues?

[Choir Loft]

Without question, our young people today face enormous challenges as it redefines what it means to do the right thing in their own lives. Unfortunately it appears these challenges are met with little resistance. Listen as we explore some of the causes of moral decline among the youth and discuss practical ways to overcome them. Hosting the show is Harry Edwards with special guests Sara Roberts, Sam Welbaum and Jeremy Livermore.

I don't understand the title of this thread 'The fight for the souls of our youth'.

The title implies a spiritual inner battle. On the other hand, the contents of the lead post as well many of the posts replying to it suggest moral action. Too often these things are confused.

Spirituality may lead to morality. Morality doesn't necessarily lead to spirituality.

There were honest men in the world long before there were Christians and the desire to live in peace with one's fellow man doesn't equate to a oneness with the cosmos. It just means you're not going to shoot your neighbor - today.

At some level accusations of the moral failures of young folks are unjustified. They are unjustified because their leaders, their teachers and their parents are unwilling or unable to provide well grounded education, proper consequences for behavior (bad or good), and an example in their own lives. There can be no moral standard if the standard bears themselves are debauched.

In the church, the chief standard bearer is the pastor. Morality as well as spirituality ought to be preached from the pulpit. It is not. Instead those of us who endure the Sunday speechifying are witness to the death of Christianity. It's being killed by the prosperity gospel, situational ethics, personal improvement and passive indifference toward God. It is a problem of leadership and in America today we have none.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

"If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discernment, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in Christianity, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that their very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it."
- Charles Finney

"Denial may not be a river in Egypt, as the 12-steppers say, but it's broader than the Mississippi in America. If there's anything we do better than escaping religious doctrine, it's denying that we escape it."
-Glenn W. Smith
HUFFINGTON POST

[Ooberman]

Without question, our young people today face enormous challenges as it redefines what it means to do the right thing in their own lives. Unfortunately it appears these challenges are met with little resistance. Listen as we explore some of the causes of moral decline among the youth and discuss practical ways to overcome them. Hosting the show is Harry Edwards with special guests Sara Roberts, Sam Welbaum and Jeremy Livermore.

I don't understand the title of this thread 'The fight for the souls of our youth'.

The title implies a spiritual inner battle. On the other hand, the contents of the lead post as well many of the posts replying to it suggest moral action. Too often these things are confused.

Spirituality may lead to morality. Morality doesn't necessarily lead to spirituality.

There were honest men in the world long before there were Christians and the desire to live in peace with one's fellow man doesn't equate to a oneness with the cosmos. It just means you're not going to shoot your neighbor - today.

At some level accusations of the moral failures of young folks are unjustified. They are unjustified because their leaders, their teachers and their parents are unwilling or unable to provide well grounded education, proper consequences for behavior (bad or good), and an example in their own lives. There can be no moral standard if the standard bears themselves are debauched.

In the church, the chief standard bearer is the pastor. Morality as well as spirituality ought to be preached from the pulpit. It is not. Instead those of us who endure the Sunday speechifying are witness to the death of Christianity. It's being killed by the prosperity gospel, situational ethics, personal improvement and passive indifference toward God. It is a problem of leadership and in America today we have none.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

"If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discernment, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in Christianity, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that their very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it."
- Charles Finney

"Denial may not be a river in Egypt, as the 12-steppers say, but it's broader than the Mississippi in America. If there's anything we do better than escaping religious doctrine, it's denying that we escape it."
-Glenn W. Smith
HUFFINGTON POST

I may or may not agree with you on any number of points, but I think we all agree, if the next generation - of any generation - can't overcome the wrongs of their fathers (previous generations), there is no hope.

In the end, we (the current generation) may fail our children, but it will always be up to the next generation to fix itself.

I don't think we started perfect and are in slow decline. I don't think any generation was any better than the last in individual terms (ask for clarification if you disagree).

Sure, we can try to give guidance and support to our children, but God help us all if that's all they have to go on.

At some point, children have to realize they are no longer children and they are the next generation.

At some point, we all have to realize we are no longer children.

We are alone, but for the friends and family we surround ourselves with; but for the company we keep. The quality of those people make up the quality of our lives, and we are at war (literally or figuratively) with other bands of brothers across the world, or across the street.

In this case, the OP is about a war of ideas: Christian proselytizing to children vs. not.

Certainly, one thing we might agree on is not all proselytizing is Good. If nothing else, we should endeavor to keep people from Bad proselytizing.

The debate on what is good or bad might be difficult, but if we don't do it, our children will have to... or their children... or their children.... etc.

[99percentatheism]

[Replying to post 1 by Ooberman]

When you read a post from a 0-ist that uses the word Xian, you don't need to read past the word Xian to know what's coming . . . Freshman dorm rantings.

[Ooberman]

[Replying to post 1 by Ooberman]

When you read a post from a 0-ist that uses the word Xian, you don't need to read past the word Xian to know what's coming . . . Freshman dorm rantings.

That's a shame. Not only am I quite fair, but the term "Xian" has roots in the founding of Christianity by Christians. It's like rejecting the cross as a symbol of Chrsitainity.

I often find Evangelicals are the most guilty of not knowing the history of their own religion. After that, it seems to be most Christians in general.


I'd encourage you to read about the Chi Rho and it's history.

Youth... wasted on the young...

[Iam]

Even if you discount sexual morality, the survey still found that younger people were six times more likely to have lied (37% vs. 6%) and twice as likely as Boomers to have engaged in acts of retaliation (12% vs. 5%).

America is on the Highway to Hell, be it a secular or spiritual version.

It would seem that 100% of boomers lie. The 6% who admit it and the 94% who lie about it.

[Neatras]

In the end, I think the entire idea behind those statistics is moot because there's such a massive amount of sampling bias. You decide whether or not you wanna answer yes or no to lying, after all. It's not like the Boomers were the epitome of righteousness. After all, every decade of the past century has in some way been associated with practices or social groups considered immoral by today's fundamentalist standards.

[Ooberman]

[Replying to post 1 by Ooberman]

When you read a post from a 0-ist....

I like that!

[Confused&undecided]

[Replying to post 5 by Choir Loft]



The church i belonged to used very manipulative tactics, possible conversions are targeted by a group and drawn into the pack. They are pressured to comply, made to feel sinful and inadequate. After a brutal crucifixion account they are made to accept personal responsibility for this.
The analogy that is used , is that if accidentally drove over somebody's child and killed them , you would be filled with remorse and your attitude should be that you would do ANYTHING to make amends.
And it goes without saying the threat of hell and eternal punishment is used, then comes the Good news, that Jesus loves you- would like a personal relationship and to save you.

[Choir Loft]

[Replying to post 10 by amptramp]


I fear something even worse than religious doctrine or secular indoctrination is at hand.

I read recently that the Federal government's propaganda bureau, which has previously been banned from poisoning domestic minds with its political spin on things, will shortly begin flooding American minds with governmental rhetoric.

Previously organizations such as Voice of America, which were created by cold war mentalities, will be spewing its propaganda through the nations's airwaves and media.

Sorry that I cannot provide a link to that news. The legislation that prevents it is being revoked. If someone finds the link it would be appreciated.

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...