Why Did You Do This, God?

[otseng]

Faiths Ask of Quake: 'Why Did You Do This, God?'

It is one of the oldest, most profound questions, posed by some of the most learned minds of every faith throughout the course of human history.

It was put eloquently this week by an old woman in a devastated village in southern India's Tamil Nadu state. "Why did you do this to us, God?" she wailed. "What did we do to upset you?" Perhaps no event in living memory has confronted so many of the world's great religions with such a basic test of faith as this week's tsunami, which indiscriminately slaughtered Indonesian Muslims, Indian Hindus, Thai and Sri Lankan Buddhists and tourists who were Christians and Jews.

What was the role of god and the asian earthquake disaster?
How could a benevolent god visit such horror on ordinary people?
Was the disaster an "expression of God's great ire with the world"?

[Zoot]

Sorry, I should explain why I said that.

I'm still seeing things like this:

Quite the contrary. If it is counter-intuitive to believe that whatever God does is good because it may appear to be evil, then we would need a constant religious reminder about God's goodness in order to keep us from straying.

...which assumes an intelligibility to the phrase "God's goodness" that is currently lost on me.

[keltzkroz]

And how does the child distinguish between a good parent and an abusive one? I mean, if I saw a parent killing or maiming its child, or 150,000 of its children, with a tsunami, I'd be inclined to call the authorities.

I believe I already answered this question in my previous post, which quoted below, although I did not explain further:

In a way, that question is similar to what is going on in a child's mind, a child wondering if what his or her parent is doing is for their own good.

I believe that our ability to reason and understand is like that of a child relative to God. And being children, I do not expect anyone (each and everyone of us) to understand or know what is actually good for us.

[Zoot]

In a way, that question is similar to what is going on in a child's mind, a child wondering if what his or her parent is doing is for their own good.

And what is one's "own good" if it doesn't include not being killed by a tsunami?

[keltzkroz]

And what is one's "own good" if it doesn't include not being killed by a tsunami?

Looking at such horrific events, we all feel that so much misery, death, and destruction brought about by such events (what some people would call ‘acts of God’ or ‘wrath of God’) can never have any good in them, or that a good God would never allow such tragedies to happen. I’m quite sure that each and every one of us would prefer a peaceful death. As a Christian, I can only hope and have faith that God let such a horrible thing happen for a reason that we can never hope to understand. Like what I have said in my previous post, I believe we are all children in our ability to reason and understand.

But I do see that in such tragedies, a lot of times, it brings out the best in people. Now, if only people (all of us) would be so loving, selfless, and charitable all the time, just like they do a lot of times when tragedy strikes, isn’t that something good? It’s just sad because once the tragedy is forgotten, so is the love, selflessness, and charity (such is the lesson we have from history). I don’t know who the author is, but I read something about man still being an animal, forgetful and giving no heed to that which is not in front of him, needing a constant reminder. In a way, man needs a constant reminder of the good that he is capable of.

[The Happy Humanist]

I think these propositions confuse the deific sense of "good" with the human sense of "good". We tend to think of good as something the benefits us, but God's sense of good would have to be different from ours, wouldn't it?

Why, necessarily? It would certainly be a more refined, informed, idealized version of what we profess as morality, but you seem to be saying His sense of right and wrong would be at odds with ours. But what does that say about Absolute Goodness? We've covered this elsewhere.

Assuming the existence of God as God there is nothing wrong with assuming that this God's good is not the same as human notions of good, though it may overlap.

Except that, again, it defies the doctrine of Absolute Goodness. At least, I assume that there is such a doctrine, because we atheists are always getting hit in the face with "moral relativism." Seems to me that if God has a different standard of behavior, that things that are no-nos for us are OK for him, then this is merely another form of moral relativism: As I said elsewhere, "morality is relative to whether or not you are God."

[The Happy Humanist]

The proposition "God is all good" must be abandoned or rephrased as "Good is all good, but in a sense wholly unknown to us, and which may appear as completely evil". It seems to me that in that case we cannot tell for certain whether, say, Osama Bin Laden is serving God or the Devil, whether he is a saint or a sinner. It means that we cannot know anything about God, let alone how to worship him. In that case there seems to be no point in religion at all.

Yes, exactly! This is the point I was trying to make in the topic "How Do You Know God Is The Good Guy?." I do not think this is a trivial matter. I think it is central to the question of why many people are disenchanted with religion, theology, and esp. Christianity. It is inherently contradictory.

[Zoot]

Looking at such horrific events, we all feel that so much misery, death, and destruction brought about by such events (what some people would call ‘acts of God’ or ‘wrath of God’) can never have any good in them, or that a good God would never allow such tragedies to happen. I’m quite sure that each and every one of us would prefer a peaceful death. As a Christian, I can only hope and have faith that God let such a horrible thing happen for a reason that we can never hope to understand. Like what I have said in my previous post, I believe we are all children in our ability to reason and understand.

But I do see that in such tragedies, a lot of times, it brings out the best in people. Now, if only people (all of us) would be so loving, selfless, and charitable all the time, just like they do a lot of times when tragedy strikes, isn’t that something good? It’s just sad because once the tragedy is forgotten, so is the love, selflessness, and charity (such is the lesson we have from history). I don’t know who the author is, but I read something about man still being an animal, forgetful and giving no heed to that which is not in front of him, needing a constant reminder. In a way, man needs a constant reminder of the good that he is capable of.

Continuing with the parent analogy, I will paraphrase your post.

Looking at such horrific events, we all feel that so much misery, death, and destruction brought about by child sexual abuse can never have any good in them, or that a good parent would never allow such tragedies to happen. I’m quite sure that each and every one of us would prefer a peaceful childhood. As a Christian, I can only hope and have faith that God did such a horrible thing happen for a reason that we can never hope to understand. Like what I have said in my previous post, I believe we are all children in our ability to reason and understand.

But I do see that in such tragedies, a lot of times, it brings out the best in people. Now, if only people (all of us) would be so loving, selfless, and charitable all the time, just like they do a lot of times when children are sexually abused, isn’t that something good? It’s just sad because once the absue is forgotten, so is the love, selflessness, and charity (such is the lesson we have from history). I don’t know who the author is, but I read something about man still being an animal, forgetful and giving no heed to that which is not in front of him, needing a constant reminder. In a way, man needs a constant reminder of the good that he is capable of.

[Zoot]

Yes, exactly! This is the point I was trying to make in the topic "How Do You Know God Is The Good Guy?." I do not think this is a trivial matter. I think it is central to the question of why many people are disenchanted with religion, theology, and esp. Christianity. It is inherently contradictory.

It certainly is inherently contradictory, because the notion of "objective (contextless) value" is inherently contradictory. Ultimately, the notion "good" means "preferable".

This might interest you: http://www.wataki.com/stories.php?story ... 07/6204851

[The Happy Humanist]

Yes, exactly! This is the point I was trying to make in the topic "How Do You Know God Is The Good Guy?." I do not think this is a trivial matter. I think it is central to the question of why many people are disenchanted with religion, theology, and esp. Christianity. It is inherently contradictory.

It certainly is inherently contradictory, because the notion of "objective (contextless) value" is inherently contradictory. Ultimately, the notion "good" means "preferable".

This might interest you: http://www.wataki.com/stories.php?story ... 07/6204851

Which begs the question, "preferable" to whom? And...in terms of what value? - as you noted in your very good article.

"Tryin' to make it real - compared to what?"
-- Grover Washington Jr.

[keltzkroz]

Continuing with the parent analogy, I will paraphrase your post.

Looking at such horrific events, we all feel that so much misery, death, and destruction brought about by child sexual abuse can never have any good in them, or that a good parent would never allow such tragedies to happen. I’m quite sure that each and every one of us would prefer a peaceful childhood. As a Christian, I can only hope and have faith that God did such a horrible thing happen for a reason that we can never hope to understand. Like what I have said in my previous post, I believe we are all children in our ability to reason and understand.

But I do see that in such tragedies, a lot of times, it brings out the best in people. Now, if only people (all of us) would be so loving, selfless, and charitable all the time, just like they do a lot of times when children are sexually abused, isn’t that something good? It’s just sad because once the absue is forgotten, so is the love, selflessness, and charity (such is the lesson we have from history). I don’t know who the author is, but I read something about man still being an animal, forgetful and giving no heed to that which is not in front of him, needing a constant reminder. In a way, man needs a constant reminder of the good that he is capable of.

I am no stranger to personal tragedy. I would not go into details, but it's enough to say that I was afflicted with a life threatening disease at a point in my life when all seemed good. It required an almost daily routine of treatment which literally drained the life out of me. Let me just say that it's not painless and I have to undergo those treatments for the rest of my life. I kept thinking why all this had to happen, why God had to do something like this to me, or anyone. As a Christian, I had two choices: feel bitter about all the misery I am in, or trust God that He has my best interests in mind. I guess you already know what I did. So many things happened to my life since then, all at the right time. Looking at where my life is right now and where it used to be, I would not have it any other way.