From atheist to theist

[Overcomer]

Maybe this was discussed on the forum prior to my becoming involved here. If so, my apologies for bringing up an old topic. If not, here's an interview with Anthony Flew explaining why he decided to abandon atheism. It's quite long, but quite interesting:

http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/

So what do people think of Mr. Flew's comments? Do they make sense to you? If so, why? If not, why not?

[Nyril]

I couldn't possibly care less. I'd never heard of the man until his conversation, and as far as I know he became a deist, which is the most hand's off version of god you can possibly imagine. If you didn't become a deist (from being a baptist/catholic/etc) reading the article, why should I?

Also, we've discussed this before.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 0415#10415

I'd continue all future posts in this thread there.

[Dilettante]

Reports of Flew's conversion seem to have been greatly exaggerated. The man is still an atheist. What has changed? He now thinks that it is not entirely irrational to believe that some sort of deity exists, although he is still unconvinced. This is what he says:

In short, I recognize that developments in physics coming on the last twenty or thirty years can reasonably be seen as in some degree confirmatory of a previously faith-based belief in god, even though they still provide no sufficient reason for unbelievers to change their minds. They certainly have not persuaded me.
(Source: Rationalist International).

You can check out the entire article at http://www.butterfliesandwheels.com/art ... php?num=98

[otseng]

I guess this just shows that it's difficult to get a straight answer from a philosopher.

He has stated:

I remain still what I have been now for over fifty years, a negative atheist. By this I mean that I construe the initial letter in the word 'atheist' in the way in which everyone construes the same initial letter in such words as 'atypical' and 'amoral'.

But, then he has also stated:

HABERMAS: Once you mentioned to me that your view might be called Deism. Do you think that would be a fair designation?

FLEW: Yes, absolutely right. What Deists, such as the Mr. Jefferson who drafted the American Declaration of Independence, believed was that, while reason, mainly in the form of arguments to design, assures us that there is a God, there is no room either for any supernatural revelation of that God or for any transactions between that God and individual human beings.

So, to reconcile these two statements that he has made, I would interpret him saying that he is a negative atheist as meaning he is not a theist, yet can be considered a deist.

Then I also found this which adds even more confusion to the mix:

Despite all this, Flew has not retracted his belief in God, as far as I can tell. But in response to theists citing him in their favor, Flew strangely calls his "recent very modest defection from my previous unbelief" a "more radical form of unbelief," and implies that the concept of God might actually be self-refuting, for "surely there is material here for a new and more fundamental challenge to the very conception of God as an omnipotent spirit," but, Flew says, "I am just too old at the age of nearly 82 to initiate and conduct a major and super radical controversy about the conceivability of the putative concept of God as a spirit." This would appear to be his excuse for everything: he won't investigate the evidence because it's too hard. Yet he will declare beliefs in the absence of proper inquiry. Theists would do well to drop the example of Flew. Because his willfully sloppy scholarship can only help to make belief look ridiculous.

[Dilettante]

Certainly puzzling, otseng. The only thing that seems clear is that he does not currently hold a very clear position.

[pepo1]

Flew is probably on the same wavelength as Lane Craig, who pretty seriously demonstrated that it is more likely that a supreme being created the universe than a supreme being did not. See Lane Craig's website for some really good debates with Quentin Smith. It might be hands-off, but it's a start and a man of that intelligence will appreciate the ramifications of how great such a God is to create such an awesome universe - instant awe and praise.

[Confused]

Maybe this was discussed on the forum prior to my becoming involved here. If so, my apologies for bringing up an old topic. If not, here's an interview with Anthony Flew explaining why he decided to abandon atheism. It's quite long, but quite interesting:

http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/

So what do people think of Mr. Flew's comments? Do they make sense to you? If so, why? If not, why not?

While I agree with everyone elses comments about the apparent indecision Flew has provided, I think as a person ages, there is that fear of death we all have that may make even the most stout of minds question their beliefs. I am not saying that Flew fits in this category, but working in medicine, I see many patients who tell me how they never believed in a God until they matured (all trying to convert me to a believer). They say that in their youth they were never really having to face the issue of death (their concept of youth was <65 years old) as an impending reality. As they watch their freinds begin to get sick, get chronic diseases, and start to see organs beginning to not work as well or fail, it becomes obvious death is coming for them. Though most say that it was the awareness of the process of aging that made them start to really question the presence of God, that wasn't the major reason they finally determined God existed. They claim it was an anwered prayer that finallly convinced them. For example: one patients kidneys were starting to shut down. He said he prayed to God for the first time in his 72 years of life. While he wouldn't say what exactly he prayed for, he says it was answered within a week. His kidneys are still shutting down and overall his health is declining, but whatever prayer he had answered, he is now a devout Christian. This is one of several examples. It lead me to beleive that as one ages, the notion of a God becomes somehow clearer. I don't know if this is the case for Mr Flew, or if it can even be applied to the general population. But I see it and can't help but wonder. Now, I have chronic mylegenous leukemia. I am faced with the fact that sooner or later, the medication will no longer work. If I live to see 55, I will consider myself fortunate. But I wonder, when my meds stop working, will my confusion clear up as I approach death and I finally see this God as a possibility.

Well, thats my opinion on it. Take it for what it's worth.