America to recognise Jerusalem

[Furrowed Brow]

US to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Anyone else think this invites more terrorism and signals ever more turmoil?

[JP Cusick]

US to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital

Anyone else think this invites more terrorism and signals ever more turmoil?

What I like about this is that it does openly expose the so called "peace process" as it truly ever was = a farce and a sham.

The USA does now and always has supported the religious bigotry of the Jewish State.

The USA does now and always has supported the racist bigotry of the Jewish State.

The USA is as always anti-Islam and anti-Muslim, and utterly hateful for the Palestinian people.

If is refreshing to have a truthful President Trump, but that truth just stinks.

[marco]

If is refreshing to have a truthful President Trump,

That's well put. He was doing no more than pointing out the boil on humanity and the matter latent under the surface. Israel is surrounded by terrorists and because they were relatively silent, during the arch-terrorism of ISIS, does not mean they have changed their intentions. It may well be that he was ill advised to expose the horror, but ignoring it might have been a bigger problem. Eventually it would have to be confronted. We attempted, unsuccessfully, to appease Hitler. One must sympathise with Israel.

[Donray]

All right everyone tell me how long this peace process has going on and what are the result? Muslims don't want peace with Israel. Israel rightfully captured territory and it is there's.

Does everyone that will should go back to the county borders that existed in 1900??? Why not?

Trump did nothig to upset a peace process since they wan't going to any peace no matter what.

Why didn't Obama settel the matter like he said he would?

[marco]

Why didn't Obama settle the matter like he said he would?

A good question; he was trying to ride two horses at the same time, just as Christ apparently rode on two donkeys when he entered Jerusalem. But Obama couldn't walk on water or raise the dead.

Iran's former president suggested that Iran could afford to lose two million but Israel would be wiped out, which was his prayer. They don't deny the Holocaust - they praise it.

Whatever America might do in the Middle East hell, it will be considered wrong. They chose to oppose Assad; they allied with cannibalistic brutes in the hope that Madame Democracy might rise naked from the flames of war. The West killed Saddam and Gaddafi and reared worse monsters in their place.

[Furrowed Brow]

Do you think what a woman wears invites or justifies rape?

No I do not, but you rise a question that is not an equivalent counter example. It also deflects away from the point.

Are you saying this move by Trump is a sincere and well thought out attempt to bring less terrorism and less turmoil to the region, or will it at least turn out to be neutral in this respect. Will things settle down with the new geography fait accompli.

I'm not feeling it.

Judging by the reaction of the rest of the world there appears be near general agreement that this is at best counter productive.

What's the betting we will have to return to this thread when events take a down turn.

[Furrowed Brow]

Because terrorists need more of a reason to do all the evil things they do?

Well yes they do actually. Most terrorist are motivated by their sense of injustice - right or wrong. (I'd refer you the work of Scott Attran). It is possible to fashion events that mitigated terrorism or make things worse.

It took decades but Irish terrorism came to an end. However if Brexit means a hard border between North and South many fear this will spark a resurgence of violence. An example of how walls and perceived ownership of those walls is a material condition for violence. America unilaterally recognising Jerusalem is potentially a material condition for greater peace.

They are already committed to the total and complete destruction of Israel.

And so what is the wisest course of action to persuade them otherwise?

I think their minds were already made up before this nonsense hit the news

This is not nonsense. People will likely die and continue to die both sides. So the question is whether Trump has just made things worse or a made bold move that will help bring peace. The latter is doubtful. More likely there will be terrible repercussions. If the idea is a peaceful accord this is not the way forward. If the motivation is the eventual total victory of Israel then this is a start in that process I guess.

[Donray]

[Replying to Furrowed Brow]

Israel will never give half of Jerusalem to idiot Palestinians that never had a home country in a thousand years. They were part of Jorden. It was Jorden that held the territories that Israel won in a war.

Since you’re so smart, tell me what will bring peace to the middle east without Israel giving back any land and being recognized as a country by all of the Muslim world.

Why not recognize that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel and that it will not be a split city?

[bluethread]

Why didn't Obama settle the matter like he said he would?

Good question. However, it was not just Obama. Even though it was unnecessary and did amount to grandstanding on the part of Congress, the Senate passed enabling legislation 50 years ago, by a vote of 90-0 and it has never been rescinded. Also, that legislation states, “Jerusalem should remain the undivided capital of Israel in which the rights of every ethnic and religious group are protected,� (emphasis mine) Trump has not gone so far as to call for that, just that our embassy should be in the same place, within the borders of Israel, that Israel designates as it's capital. Strange thing, Trump actually believes that the president should actually enforce the laws enacted by Congress. I wonder where he got that idea?

[marco]

Why didn't Obama settle the matter like he said he would?

Good question. However, it was not just Obama. Even though it was unnecessary and did amount to grandstanding on the part of Congress, the Senate passed enabling legislation 50 years ago, by a vote of 90-0 and it has never been rescinded. Also, that legislation states, “Jerusalem should remain the undivided capital of Israel in which the rights of every ethnic and religious group are protected,� (emphasis mine) Trump has not gone so far as to call for that, just that our embassy should be in the same place, within the borders of Israel, that Israel designates as it's capital. Strange thing, Trump actually believes that the president should actually enforce the laws enacted by Congress. I wonder where he got that idea?

I have sympathy with this view. It is a distracting tactic to label Trump as foolish and then present an argument based on this premise. We constantly try to please people in the misguided hope that our support and understanding will make them better humans, unwilling to kill. Britain, bless her, is attempting to appease the weary troops of ISIS who are coming back home to their loved ones by offering them free accommodation. They will surely understand, by that gesture, that Britain means them no harm. Trump appears to think this way of working is useless. How odd.

[Kenisaw]

Because terrorists need more of a reason to do all the evil things they do?

Well yes they do actually. Most terrorist are motivated by their sense of injustice - right or wrong. (I'd refer you the work of Scott Attran). It is possible to fashion events that mitigated terrorism or make things worse.

Islamic extremists think the entire planet is injust and needs to, quite literally, die or become subjugated to Islam. Their motivation doesn't change no matter where the capitol of Israel is located on a map. I think you focusing on a brick while the entire building is looking to fall on you.

It took decades but Irish terrorism came to an end. However if Brexit means a hard border between North and South many fear this will spark a resurgence of violence. An example of how walls and perceived ownership of those walls is a material condition for violence. America unilaterally recognising Jerusalem is potentially a material condition for greater peace.

Different countries, different dynamics in play. I'm not sure I find the two situations all that compatible.

They are already committed to the total and complete destruction of Israel.

And so what is the wisest course of action to persuade them otherwise?

One must first assume that they can be persuaded. There is no evidence that this is the case. The best thing that kept the lid on Islam extremists was moderate Middle East governments, who basically cracked down on the extremists (and sometimes quite brutally). While those governments were damn near dictatorships in many cases and therefore had their own host of problems, exporting extreme Islam wasn't one of them. Now many of those governments are gone, and the inmates are running the asylums.

I think their minds were already made up before this nonsense hit the news

This is not nonsense. People will likely die and continue to die both sides. So the question is whether Trump has just made things worse or a made bold move that will help bring peace. The latter is doubtful. More likely there will be terrible repercussions. If the idea is a peaceful accord this is not the way forward. If the motivation is the eventual total victory of Israel then this is a start in that process I guess.

Total victory of Israel? Ask yourself this question: If one of the sides laid down all their arms today, what would happen tomorrow? If the Palestinians did, nothing would happen. Israel would not invade, they would not launch rockets, there would be no attack, and I think intellectually honest people can all agree on that. What if Israel laid down all their arms today?

I think we also know the answer to that question...and that's all you really need to know.